Old Navy Pulls Women's Plus Line from Stores

Removing clothing from stores is showcasing them? She has a unique version of reality.

My guess is they just didn't want fat people in their stores for their "image."

I'm not sure why they bother continuing the line at all. Old Navy has made it clear they don't want me as a customer so that's that.

This really bugs me. The Gap, their corporate sister, has only carried the 18 and 20 sizes online for a while. I always felt like, why not just carry your whole line in your stores? Oh, you don't want me in there "ruining" the line of your silly khakis. The worst part is, I will JUMP on anyone who starts carrying plus sizes. The fact that Old Navy was carrying them made me feel acceptedby society in some larger way - what's more average and middle of the road than Old Navy? I guess I'll just have to live without another poorly made XXL t-shirt.

I've gone into every old navy store I've come across in a couple of states looking for these mythical plus sizes and every store has said that they don't carry them. I remember trying to squeeze into a size 20 in their store (the highest offered) and I couldn't get it on, which would be fine except that in every other store I was fitting into a size 16 easily. I'm bigger than that now so forget about it! I think that I too am done with Old Navy--online or instore!

Yup, I should have elaborated in my other post, but I was feeling too pissy. I've heard the rumor for a few weeks, but then I went into my ON store (the flagship store at 34th St in Manhattan), and they have big signs saying that the plus section will be online only by July (with a coupon for free shipping, gee thanks) I've already written them a note to say they've lost me as a customer completely.

They say this is a "business" decision because the line didn't perform very well, but hell, they never marketed it! Most people never knew that they carried up to a 4X in women's (a very generous 4X, probably in the range of a 30/32/34 at LB or the Avenue).

In addition to the huge amount I spent on plus clothes there, I also bought jewelry, shoes, accessories, and gifts for my sister and boyfriend. So there are those dollars they are losing out on now, too.

Way to go GAP Corp.

What a bad idea. Plus sized women are all different shapes, and we need to try clothes on before buying them. I almost never buy clothes online because of that. I certainly wouldn't buy Old Navy clothes online, since their sizes are especially unreliable.

I really believe that the reason that they did so badly is because they only had them in certain stores. Also, a majority of the stores they were carried were in low income/populated areas.

With the fact that Lane Bryant has been making money hand over fist, I find this to be more of an image they are trying to project.

This is a bunch of crap. Some people don't have credit cards, or, as some of you have mentioned, some people don't like to buy clothes online. This just makes it harder to find affordable clothes IRL that fit us. This has to be an image thing with them. I'll not be bothering with Old Navy.

BTW, I'm new here; Hi Everyone

Elizabeth

Ugh! I very much wanted to rely on Old Navy when they came out with plus sizes. But they were only in particular stores, and when I got to that particular store in my area, the Plus Size section always was a complete mess and my size was never available.

Old Navy's move comes in a long line of stores who think the key to appearing more "upscale" is to cater to a wealthier demographic. The fallacy here is that this weather demographic is thin. And, it is true to a certain degree - wealthy people have money to pay for personal trainers, gym memberships and have the leisure time in which to exercise while poor people don't. There's a reason why fast food restaurants are located predominantly in poorer neighborhoods.

I never much cared for Old Navy's plus sized clothes anyway. The waist was always too large and the legs too small. It was as if they fashioned it using a chicken as a model.

I really don't understand this trend I've seen with stores that sell plus sizes changing to "normal" sizes. Those people can shop ANYWHERE. I finally find a few stores that sell some nice clothing in my size (I'm thinking, in particular, of someplace other than Old Navy, but it's a similar situation.) and they give up on me. Now I'm pushed to the fringes of online and I feel insulted. The sizes for women's clothing are all over the place; how can I buy something without trying it on. And why should I be inconvienced with a shipping charge because they refuse to carry my size in the store? Yep, insulted.

Agreed totally on the shipping charge. The least they could do is offer free shipping for the plus sizes, since they can't be purchased elsewhere.

But it isn't just plus sizes getting squeezed out of the brick and mortars, it's petites too. They're getting killed out there, retailers are, and they are looking for anything and everything that could save them a few bucks, including having slightly less rack space they have to lease.

I doubt Old Navy is really thinking about luring only upscale shoppers. That would be suicidal for them; it's not like they're Banana Republic or some other big yuppie brand, they absolutely rely on the working-class shopper. It's possible ON's plus-sized clothes simply weren't big sellers wherever they were offered, for reasons rachelr hinted at upthread. To paraphrase the Elephant Man, "I am not a chicken, I am a human being! And I have a waist!"

I sent them an e-mail. I think the least I can do is to let them know they won't be getting my money anymore.

I have a huge number of Old Navy fashions in my closet. I have been lucky to live close to a large store with an ample plus size section. But I went in this past weekend and the entire department has disappeared with no notice whatsoever. In fact, when I asked two weeks ago if they were getting rid of the clothes (because they put the clothes in the back corner of the store), the answer was no.

The main problem, for me, with Old Navy's move to online only plus-sizes is that their sizing is INCREDIBLY inconsistent. The appealing thing about shopping at Old Navy was being able to try things on and see how they fit. Now, especially since the shipping charge remains, that has become impossible. I would continue to buy at Old Navy online because, hey, I need clothes and perhaps if online sales do well they will bring the clothes back to the stores, but I don't want to pay to ship something to me, pay to ship it back if it doesn't fit, and then pay for a new item to be shipped to me. Particularly if I am only buying one or two items! It kills any price advantage Old Navy would have over a pricier brick-and-mortar store.

I didn't know Old Navy even carried plus sizes. I shop online a great deal because I am short, and I rarely find brick and mortar stores that carry plus size petites. Furthermore, it's hard to find clothing that is well made. However, I have had problems shopping online as has been mentioned in other posts. Sizing is inconsistent, you pay more because of shipping, and returns are a hassle. Also, if you find you need something in a hurry, you either have to pay a great deal for 24-hour shipping or do without.

Well...crap. I only *just* found out Old Navy carried plus sizes (and only because I saw a pair of Old Navy Plus pants on eBay) last week and was planning to head to the ON store this weekend to check it out. You know, because I like to actually try on clothes and see how they look/feel before I buy them. I totally agree with kimdog that they did not market this at all so of COURSE it's not going to perform well.

The closing of the Plus size section is a disappointment and a great disgrace. I simply cannot fathom how they've failed to profit off of this line, and i can only agree that it was the failure to market the line properly. The fact that several amongst us weren't even aware of this line is a clear example of ON's dropping of the proverbial ball.

If it's any consolation, I buy a great deal of my clothing at Target. I can only shop In-store, because like ON, their sizing is haphazard and unpredictable, but they DO carry a generous line of plus sized clothing. I find their fashions to be current and cute, and parallel ON in terms of quality (read: not great, but useful for a season or two). The ample selection i've found, however, may be regional, as i am in an urban area (considered by our state to be low income).

Yep, I just e-mailed them and let them know they just lost my business too. And made the points that everyone else is making - I want to be able to try on for fit and to see how it's going to look. I don't want to have to pay shipping, and EXTRA shipping, just because something doesn't fit, or doesn't really look like it did in the picture, or when I put it on me, it looks horrendous, and not at all the way I thought it might when I guessed what it might look like based on the picture they showed on-line.

I suggested that if they had given the plus sizes a REAL try, putting them in all the stores and actually letting people know they existed (I only knew because my mom and sister, who are NOT plus sized, found them while shopping for themselves), they might be surprised what kind of money is out there.

I told them they became basically nothing in the plus sized market on-line. I can GET clothes there, that's no big deal. What excited me about them was being able to go to a store and buy something right then. That we want to be treated like the skinny girls. That we are no different. That treating us differently means losing our business.

You know I think this is becoming a trend. The local Wal Mart here basically took out almost all their plus size clothes (Not that they were very stylish anyway, but I like getting a cheap pair of sweats or jeans sometimes just like anyone else). I mean, people are getting bigger, but fewer and fewer places are carrying plus size clothes, at least for women. You can go into the men's department and the big sizes are still there. I almost feel like someone is bullying me into losing weight by narrowing down my clothing options until there's nothing I can find to fit me. GRRRR. .

I don't shop at Old Navy anyway. I usually shop at stores like CJ Banks and Coldwater Creek; they carry women's sizes and usually have things I like.

Well, as I could have, and probably SHOULD have expected, I got back a form letter from Old Navy that proved they didn't even bother to read the letter I sent. I just sent a rather angry response back!

Here's the whole thing:
First letter I sent:
------------
I am writing because I just heard about the fact that Old Navy will be removing its plus line from its brick-and-mortar stores. This disappoints me greatly. I wear Old Navy jeans almost exclusively, and have found that I like a lot of theOld Navy styles. I was greatly pleased when Old Navy started selling Plus sizes, especially
since I recently lost weight and have only recently been able to even wear sizes in that range. The problem is, I can buy clothes in my size ANYWHERE on-line. The choice of clothing on-line is ubiquitous. By selling on-line only, Old Navy becomes just another store. The only thing I found disappointing previously about the Old Navy plus line was the fact that so FEW of the physical stores carried the line, and I had to travel so far
to find Old Navy clothing that would fit me. But still, having somewhere I could go that actually had the clothing in the store where I could try it on and see how it looked on and fit BEFORE I purchased it made the trip worth it, though I still wished that ALL the Old Navy stores would have carried the clothing in my size.Now, however, Old Navy has become just another store that sells on-line. Another store where, if I think of it, I MIGHT look SOMETIMES for clothing, but chances are, I won't bother. Why? Because why would I? I would much rather go somewhere where I can try on the clothing and see how it fits and looks before I spend the money.

I don't want to wait days or weeks to get something which I have only seen in a picture, only to get it and find out it really doesn't fit, doesn't look anything like I thought it would, or doesn't look good on me, and have to send it back. It ends up costing me more money in shipping, and is more trouble. I like to be able to decide I
want something new to wear, go to the store, buy it, and wear it. Just like the skinny girls! Surprisingly enough, we're the same. And we don't like being treated like second-class citizens.

I previously had a store at which I regularly spent hundreds of dollars on clothing every 3 or 4 months. Then, they decided to become an on-line only retailer. That was 2 or 3 years ago, and I think I've purchased something from them once since then.

The plus-size market out there is worth a great deal of money. Instead of burying your plus-sizes in a very few stores that were next to impossible to find, then deciding the "experiment" wasn't working, why not try to actually advertise, put the sizes in ALL your stores, and let the plus-size community know the clothing is actually there? The only reason I knew is because my mom saw it while shopping with my sister, who is not a plus size. I would never have even discovered it otherwise. If you want to find out if selling plus sizes can actually work, why not give it a REAL try before you give up on the "experiment"?

Kimberly Cummings - no longer a customer
-------------------

The canned response I got back:
---------------
Original Message:
-----------------
From: oldnavy.com Service custserv@oldnavy.com
Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 08:48:59 -0400
To: kim@kims-world.net
Subject: Re: Removal of Plus line from stores (KMM30028974V96441L0KM)

Dear Kimberly,

Thank you for your e-mail regarding our Women's Plus line. After much
evaluation, and as difficult a decision as it was, we will be removing
the Women's Plus line from all of our Old Navy stores. Please accept
our sincere apologies for any disappointment this may cause you.

While we will no longer carry Women's Plus in any of our stores, the
complete line is available on our website at oldnavy.com. You can place
an order on the web or by calling 1-800-OLD-NAVY, option one. Our
online representatives are available 24 hours a day to assist you with
questions or order placement.

We hope this information is helpful and look forward to shopping with
you soon.

Sincerely,

Shelly
Customer Service Consultant

-----------------

And my not-so-happy response:
-----------------

Excuse me, did you even BOTHER to read the message I sent? Obviously
not, based on this form letter you sent back to me. I am no longer a
customer based on this decision. I do not shop Old Navy on-line, the
only reason I shopped Old Navy was because I could find my sizes IN
YOUR STORES!!!!!!

What's more, you lost business from my mother, my sister, and my sister-
in-law, all of whom also bought me clothing there, because they could
walk into a store and buy me clothing. There are thousands of people
JUST LIKE ME out there. People who want to walk into a store, find
their size, buy it, and walk out. People who have loved ones who want
to buy gifts of clothing for them, and want to be able to walk into a
store to do it, where it is much easier to return and exchange than
doing it on-line.

Instead of passing me back a form letter which only makes me angrier and
more resolved NEVER to buy anything from Old Navy again, including gifts
for people who you do decide are worthy of having clothing carried in the
store, or even DOGS, which are evidently more worthy than those of us who
wear larger sizes, why not pass this letter on to someone who makes the
decisions and can see that the company is LOSING BUSINESS and LOSING MONEY
here?

I am NOT the only one. Size 14-16 is AVERAGE in America. That means that
Old Navy is alienating HALF of its possible market with this decision.

I've often been disappointed with Old Navy, but I have shopped there enough to warrant getting a credit card. Not anymore! That's one piece of plastic I'll be happy to cut up.

Here's the email I sent them just now:

Hello--

Like many other plus size people, I have just learned today that you will no longer be carrying your plus size clothing in stores. The only real advantage of shopping at Old Navy is the ability to try things on; quite frankly, buying clothing online is inconvenient and usually disappointing. Old Navy often has cute clothes, but frankly, they are not anything special when compared to your competitors who carry my size.

As you say, online is everywhere; for me, that just became everywhere except Old Navy.

I will be closing my credit card account and making sure that all my friends and family, no matter what their size, are aware of your poor decision.

I, too, got the irritating form letter and shot back a reply because I was irritated at its complete lack of relevance to what I had written. Here's what I got back. Check especially that the person did not even bother to enter which pronoun was supposed to go in the mass email:

Dear Nicole,

Thank you for your continued interest in our Women's Plus line. As we
mentioned in our earlier reply, the decision to remove Women's Plus from
our stores was a very difficult one, especially when customers like
[you, your wife, etc.] are so passionate about the line. Please be
assured that your feedback will be shared with our merchandising teams.

Thank you again for your comments and we hope that you will continue to
honor us with your patronage at oldnavy.com.

Sincerely,

Larry
Customer Service Consultant

Yeah. Did I not expressly say in my first line that I would never shop at Old Navy again, not just for me but for my whole family? Not planning on honoring you with my patronage anytime soon.

I can't think of a better time to start taking sewing lessons. If retailers think they're hemorrhaging money now, they ain't seen nothin' yet.

And if ON has even two brain cells left to rub together, they will allow in-store returns with full refunds of all merchandise purchased online, as Lands' End does at Sears. That's the principle reason that if I am going to order stuff online it's probably going to be from them. Also, LE does put plus sizes in the Sears stores, albeit an incomplete selection, much as with Sears' offerings of LE standard sizes, so you can at least try things on and get the proper sizing to order, plus see and feel the fabrics.

I was never an ON customer myself, but I certainly understand the sentiments of those who miss getting to shop with their smaller sized friends at the same store. And they would be better off not replying at all to customers' emails than sending those patronizing auto-bot replies.

Actually, there is one reason - other than the poor fit - that old Navy might not have been making a lot of money with their plus sized line. Their regular sized line goes up to a 20 (which is around an 18W). A lot of plus sized women (size 14W-18W) can still buy Old Navy clothes in the store.

I just got the same canned reply from autobot "Robert". *eyeroll*

Yep, I got it too. Mine was from "Jessica". At least it did have the [you, your wife, etc.] replaced by you.

Yeah, I feel the love. About the same as I feel when a company tells me how important my call is to them repeatedly with an automated voice as I sit on hold for 2 hours.

Sheesh, what will it take to get through to these companies? I'm really sick of this!

Physical letters are always more effective. Corporations do not take email seriously, as you have seen. Why not send an actual letter through the US mail if you truly care about this issue?

Old Navy is opening a store here in Moscow, I guess I get to let them know they will not be getting any of my hard earned money I had planned to spend there.

It's upsetting to me that Old Navy is discontinuing their Plus Line in what little stores they had them in. But please know that most likely, even if you send a "real" letter through the post, you're going to get back a standard letter expressing how the Company appreciates hearing from "you" and will take your concerns into consideration.

Does anyone really expect a Company to answer each and every one of their letters with a personal response? Out of how many hundreds/thousands the company may get? I actually didn't have a problem with the response Old Navy sent back... it was a standard letter thanking for contacting them and conerns wil be noted. If they hear from enough people they may (and that's a slight may, because it's all image & money) take another course of action.

If someone feels a personal need to voice their opinion to a live person, then perhaps the information below might help. Just please remember the person is only a Cust. Serv Rep, they're not corporate, they're just there to pass the message along, or if they get enough calls on the subject then report to their Supervisor they're receiving a lot of complaint calls regarding whatever issue.

If you have questions or comments about an Old Navy store
By Phone
Call 1-800-OLD-NAVY (1-800-653-6289). Then select one of the following options:
Press 4 for general Customer Service inquiries.

Write To
Old Navy Customer Relations
200 Old Navy Lane
Grove City, OH 43123-8605

I was thinking about ordering more underwear from ON (they have a kind I like), but after this, I'll just find another.

I need to try things on and see how they look and feel, and since I can't do that online, another customer down for ON.

I've shopped Old Navy online since their Plus line first came out -- I think I even heard about its launch here at BFB! -- because there were no ON stores IN MY ENTIRE STATE that carried the Plus line, and I was sick of shopping at my two other local choices, Fashion Bug (poor quality, high prices) and Wal-Mart (tiny selection, unfashionable patterns and cuts). Shipping is a flat $5, and if you're exchanging an item, shipping is free both ways. I've exchanged several times and never had a problem, though I have occasionally had surprises in sizing.

The one time I went to an ON store with Plus sizes, I had just moved to a different state and I was on a mission to find a denim skirt. I found a tiny Plus section at the back of the store, and it had been absolutely pillaged, like Voirdire mentioned. My size overlaps with their Women's line so I was able to find something that fit in that section, but I didn't bother going to that store again.

I'm starting to think that since ON only carried the Plus line in some stores, they were just trying to get people to buy more online and were never going to expand the Plus line to all stores. They just wanted you to get used to buying their clothing and then move you to online shopping. I recently got a coupon for something like $10 off Women's Plus only (whether that's because I've bought Plus clothes before or whether they're sending that coupon to all cardholders, I don't know), and I was all excited about how they were finally marketing the Plus line until I read this post. It's probably more like, "Here's $10 and please don't be pissed that now you can ONLY buy this stuff online."

I love their jeans all to hell, so I won't stop shopping there, but I am really disappointed in the form response letters people have been getting. It really seems like ON doesn't care about their customers' feedback, and doesn't care about the people who would buy their Plus sizes. Now it's just another store I can't go and visit with my thinner friends, because they'll find something amazing and I'll be left shopping for accessories.

Speaking only for myself, I certainly wasn't expecting a personal reply but it doesn't make it any less annoying. Plus, a company can send out form letters and at least make it appear they care by removing the generic form fields in their responses.

I think this is just another case of the skinnies thinking the fatties might eat them.....hmmmm

I think this is just another case of the skinnies thinking the fatties might eat them..

To which the proper response is "Don't worry; you're safe. You look tough, stringy, and flavorless to me."

Online is not everywhere. Old Navy never introduced plus sizes into the Canadian stores and Canadians are not able to order online. I like their clothes, and was rather hoping they'd expand their distribution not restrict it.

Mira, that double-plus sucks!

I wondered how long it was going to last. I never bought much from the women's side of Old Navy because the sizes ran a little small for me, and the selection was just horrid. Tons of little cami style tops and velour pants suits, nothing for adult women to be seen. However, I did like their larger sizes of t-shirts when they'd have a dirt-cheap sale on them, I suppose I'll have to treasure my 3XL shirts because I won't be getting any more. I'm certianly not going to shop online with them, if I want poorly-assembled clothing from China I can always go to Wal-Mart.

Kohl's has fairly good-quality size 3X tees that are affordable. I live in them.

I e-mailed them too and got the generic form letter as well from "Jessica"...this really STINKS!! I live in Gilbert,
AZ (a suburb of Phoenix) with at least 4 Old Navys within 5 miles of my home...NONE of which carried plus sizes. Phoenix is the 5th largest city in the US and there is (was) only ONE store in the ENTIRE metro area that carried plus, and was clear on the other side of the city (about a 45 minute-to a hour drive) Absolutely ridiculous. All of which I pointed out in my e-mail...for God's sake, do they think we don't buy clothes? If these morons had any idea what I spend on clothes/lingerie/cosmetics in a year they would be kissing my feet for my business! (I am a self-described shopaholic
If anyone out there lives in the Phoenix area and knows of some cute, trendy plus-size clothing haunts around here besides the usual Lane Bryant/Avenue/Fashion Bug/Catherines/Torrid, please let me know. Would love to find a shopping buddy too..I'm originally from Milwaukee and have been out here about a year and a half

Ok - I guess I just can't leave this one alone.

I ended up sending Old Navy yet ANOTHER e-mail, even though I'm sure I'll just get back some canned response yet again. But the story I tell in my e-mail explains why this made me boil over all over again....

I know we've all said it before, but here it goes again.... They'd all rather turn down our money, and there's a lot of it out there, than be associated with larger sizes. It's nuts! How many businesses do you know will exclude a large portion of the public, that has money, lots of it, begging for places to spend it, just because "we don't like their kind"? Or - yeah, we'll sell to you, as long as it's on-line so you aren't in here, contaminating our stores, because then the thin, young people we REALLY like might not want to come in. Ummm...ok, I'm not trying to make light of the struggle against racism and all through the years, but doesn't that feel a little like the back of the bus? Or separate but equal?

There are days when I'm good at letting this stuff roll off my back, and days when it really, really gets to me.

Here's the letter I sent:
------------------------------
To whom it may concern,

I have written previously about this subject, but felt that a recent incident was
worth relaying to the Old Navy/Gap company as a specific example of how the latest
decision to no longer carry plus sizes in the retail Old Navy stores is costing
your company business.

A few weeks ago, I was attending Apple's World Wide Developer's Conference (WWDC)
in San Francisco. The conference is held in the Moscone Center, and I was staying
in a hotel nearby and walking to the conference daily. Each day, I had to walk
past the Old Navy Flagship store on 4th and Market. Since I go to this conference
every year, I have been in and purchased clothing at this store before.

This year, I was a guest speaker for the conference. I was speaking on Thursday,
and speakers were expected to wear business casual clothing. I decided once I was
out there that I wasn't happy with the clothing that I had brought to wear for the
session at which I was speaking, and I wanted to pick up another outfit, plus I had
forgotten a couple of things, and needed to pick them up as well. Had this been
last years conference, I would have been able to just stop in the Old Navy store on
my way back from the conference one day, and would have found exactly what I was
looking for.

In fact, even though I knew that Old Navy had already decided to stop carrying plus
sizes in the retail stores, I actually did stop in the store, hoping that there might
at least be a few plus items still on a clearance rack or something. However, the
only thing I found was a sign that said I could have free shipping if I wanted to buy
something on-line. Considering this was Monday, I was speaking on Thursday, I would
need to try on anything I bought, and I was out-of-town besides, that was of absolutely
no use to me whatsoever.

Instead, I ended up taking a few hours off from the conference on Wednesday afternoon
to go to a Lane Bryant store, where I found everything I needed IN THE STORE. I ended
up spending over $120 that day. And this was just one occasion. I buy clothing on a
regular basis, and Old Navy used to be one of the main choices for buying that clothing.
A good deal of my clothing budget was going to Old Navy. It no longer is, because I
cannot go in and try on the clothing to see how it looks before I purchase it, and walk
out of the store with it that day.

I belong to an on-line community for size acceptance, and there are quite a few women
on that board who have expressed these same sentiments. I suspect this is just a small
sample too; there are likely a lot of women who are not involved in these on-line
communities who are just as disappointed with this decision who will never write a
single letter to you, but who will simply spend their money elsewhere. Not to mention
all those who never even knew you had the clothes there in the first place, because
Old Navy never bothered to advertise, or to put the plus clothing in all the stores. I
would never have even gone into an Old Navy store to find out the clothes were there
if it weren't for the fact that my mother and sister found them when shopping for
themselves.

Oh, and you not only lost the money for my clothing, you lost money I was spending
buying gifts for others. I had gotten to like the Old Navy styling and pricing, and
had frequently stopped in to buy presents for other people. But since you quit carrying
my size in the store, I will not give my business to you for other purchases either. I
suspect I am not alone in doing that either.

I know in the grand scheme of things, one person spending $120 one day isn't much.
But that's an example. People in my size range make up a large percentage of the
population. We have money. We have a need for clothing. We want to buy clothing.
And unlike people who wear the smaller sizes, we have a limited number of stores where
we can walk in and buy clothing in our sizes. That means that selling clothing in
plus sizes could be an incredible marketing and money-making opportunity for Old Navy,
if done right.

Or you can discount us, like so much of the rest of the world, and we'll keep our
money and ignore you.

Kimberly S. Cummings