Torrid

You can permanently avoid the day pass at Salon with this address: http://www.salon.com/news/cookie.html Salon *off to read the article*...

Also, one of the companies they link to on the second page of the article does NOT sell plus sized clothes that I could tell--the company run by Nelly, Apple Bottoms. Their FAQ says their sizes are 2-14, which is not plus-sized. Just because their clothes appear to be designed to, ah, accentuate the booty doesn't mean they're plus-sized.

Journalists have it drummed into them from the start that they must provide "both sides" of a story or what they've written is considered an "editorial". Other than that, it is a good article. I just wish I was young enough to wear Torrid's clothes ;-)

I am 46 and have bought some of their clothes. Not all their clothes are revealing. The article is generally a good one, although I could have done without the preaching about the alleged health risks of being fat. Some of the girls mentioned in the article are not even that big; size 14 is about average in the US, maybe not for teens, but overall.

Geez. Some people can just suck all the love out of a room, can't they? That Laubgross woman ("specializing in weight management", of course) just steams my beans! The poor deluded dears, trying to convince their teen selves they're happy with their bodies when goodness knows you can't be at *that* size, decent clothes or not. Harrumph.

And it's great that they can say, 'Well, this looks nice.' But it's still 'nice' from the fat-girl store. GRRRRR! You know, I don't see anyone wringing their hands about those who shop in the "petite-girl" stores. Talk about reinforcing the idea of fat people as second-class citizens!!! The upscale, trendy, West LA mall near me opened a Torrid near the end of last year...in the prime real estate no less (main floor, center), in between Limited and Steve Madden. The place is always packed.

I don't understand the "if we make life too nice for fat people (i.e. we don't pelt them with rotten eggs the minute they step outside their front doors), they won't be motivated to lose weight" mentality either. Do these people even KNOW how many diets most of us have been on, ever since we were kids? How many times most of us HAVE lost weight, only to put it back on? Do they really think the reason we gain the weight back is because we just can't resist consuming mountains of fries and boxes of doughnuts? Do they understand the Herculean effort it takes, day after day forever, for a fat woman to get and stay thin, if it's even biologically possible for her? The tiny amounts of rabbit food one must limit oneself to consuming? The amount of time spent working out? Do they understand that it's possible to NEVER "pig out" and still be very fat? No, they do not. And nothing convinces them otherwise. But I'm coming to believe that the war on fat is essentially a one-gender war, despite the PC wording. If it was just fat MEN running around out there, and all the women were thin, I'll bet hardly anyone would have a problem with it.

Every store has a men's big and tall section with the same clothes as the regular men's section. At a lot of stores, the "plus" or "women's" section is either nonexistent or has ugly clothes.

I have a great idea! We should make kitchen counters higher so that people will grow taller!!!!!!

on a somewhat related note, I find that it is extremely difficult to find girly clothes when you are tall. women's plus size, unlike men's, doesn't have a tall section. I usually have to resort to cute pants that aren't quite long enough or men's levi's that accentuate my already noticeable hips. Not the end of the world but it is a bother.

Hey Persephone, we should buy the same clothes. I'm 4'10", so the petite is still about six inches too long on me - I could cut off the extra and you could sew it on yours! :) Ironically, it usually seems to me that people assume the fatter I am the taller I should be. For example, a 3X t-shirt goes down to my knees and the sleeves past my elbows. Of course, I guess they do that to perpetuate the fat and lazy stereotype - I always look like a slob (in my opinion) in a shirt like that. The thing I found funny was when I went to Ross a few months ago and discovered you can't be petite and big at the same time. They had their misses section, their junior section (which I don't even know what the difference is), their "normal women" section (I forget what name it had), their petite section, and their plus size section. (Which, I might add, was about one side of a rack of clothes for my size, compared to a few racks of all the other sizes in the other departments). I went over to the petite section and it only went up to an 18! I guess I was supposed to keep growing taller after I hit that size? I can find them in other stores, I just found that hilarous. I'm too fat to be short now. :) There's big and tall stores - where's my short and fat store? :) Midknyt

Catherines, Wal-Mart, and Nordstrom all sell petite plus clothing, according to their websites.

Midknyt - I was going to post the same thing, and I'm 5'2" - four inches taller than you, yet average plus sizes are so very long on me (pants, sleeves, waists, etc.) I don't know who the heck most clothes are made for. I really don't. And I've never seen petite plus cothing bigger than an 18/20 AND petite seems to mean smaller waist, smaller thighs, and so on. So an petite plus 18 is often like a 16. Oh, the sizing issues in plus clothes are endless, aren't they? Anyway, to the topic at hand: Good article on Torrid. At least it's getting out there. I can't imagine what my life would have been like with a Torrid in my mall in high school.

I have found one place that carries pants that are long enough. BeBe has pants up to length 36" ....the only problem....the pants cost between $150 and $250. So I suppose if you are tall you are also rich. (I am not currently independently, polo pony, Paris shopping spree rich) Maybe this could be a way to make money....clothes for REAL people ....perish the thought.

Many groups of people have trouble finding clothes that fit properly: fat women, short men, tall women. All of these groups have enough people to support a clothing business that is targeted to them, but finding such companies is still a challenge. Many people start specialty clothing lines out of their own frustration and end up making a lot of money.

Astarte has some great clothes, although they're also expensive. They don't use sizes; they just ask for your measurements. www.astartewoman.com

Lands' End offers some clothes in Petite Plus (up to about size 26); they'll also hem or cuff trousers, chinos or jeans to whatever length you want.

astarte doesn't make anything smaller than a bust size 40" hip size 40" and waist 30". Any other suggestions would be helpful and much appreciated.

I think most of us have some issues when it come to clothing. I have big boobs and a much smaller butt, seems that fat women are mostly meant to have smaller boobs and big butts according to the fashion industry. I have now started to make my own clothes. Which means I can choose the colour, fabric and style and I can change the pattern to fit. If people are in any way crafty it is well worth learning to sew. "Don't Tell Me What Size I Must Be" has an extensive list of retailers on the website for all kind of clothes. I think that there is a link for BFB. It is worth a look.

You know, this is why I never had issues about being fat and clothes shopping. Either the clothes didn't come in my size, or they were way too long, or they didn't fit my boobs (which I don't understand since a large majority of big girls have big boobs, and I'm only a DD, not an F or anything). Or it would be all three. So there was never the crying in the dressing room for being too fat, it was the frustration of a clothing world that seems out to get me. :) I tell you Meg, I loved when the capri pants came into style...Those pants are the only pants I can remember having that I don't have to roll up. They are full length pants for me! :) This whole clothing conversation spurred an interesting thought...you know how plus sizes are always more money than "normal" size clothes? (Like my extra inch of fabric really costs $2) Well, I've never shopped for tall clothes (obviously), but I would assume that tall clothes cost the same as petite clothes. (Do they? I figure you, persephone, would know at least). Does it really cost more material for clothes to go from fitting a 14 to fitting an 18 than it does to make clothes go from fitting a 5'4" and under petite to fitting a 6' tall (or whatever height talls are for)? I bought a wedding dress about a month ago, and my dress was $350 for the plus size and $300 for a regular size (there was a $1500 dollar dress that was I think $1850 for the plus size), but the petite dresses cost the same as the non-petite. Not that we didn't already know that the plus-size-needs-more-fabric price hike excuse was bull in the first place, I just never thought about petite versus tall before as a counter argument. But then again, I guess I can't help being short, but I could always lose weight, right? Grr. Midknyt

In the book ONE SIZE FITS ALL AND OTHER MYTHS, by Liz Curtis Higgs, there's an interview with the founder of the Forgotten Woman franchise, who says plus size clothing costs more not only because of more fabric being used, but because a separate pattern has to be commissioned for the larger sizes.

Silhouettes (www.silhouettes.com) carries most of their pants in petite, average, and tall sizes through size 26. They have clothes above size 26, but only in average length.

MidknytOwl, Yes the tall clothes do cost more than the regular length clothes at times. Ralph Lauren used to make a jean in a 36" inseam and it was $70 whereas the 32" was $60. This was for the exact same pant in a size 8 so it wasn't a plus size surcharge it was a length surcharge and I felt I was being screwed because of the extra 2 inches just as I am certain you do. The best thing to happen recently is some of the nicer stores make the pants longer because women wnat them to go over a high heel shoe (the popular look lately) so I have found some pants that are longer but they are generally expensive ( think 7 jeans .....yikes $200 a pair) and I often get the "what are you doing shopping here you amazon nothing will be long enough" look from the salespeople who are 5' tall and weigh 90 pounds so I can relate....seems like the discrimation radiates out towards anyone that doesn't fit a pretty narrow stereotype.

Wow, check out the letters in response to the Salon article. They pretty much told off all those idiots who said Torrid is encouraging teens to be fat. Hooray!

luckily in the uk we have tall women clothes, and small and curvy http://www.womensplussize.co.uk/ this is for all http://www.uniquelywoman.co.uk/ for the tall http://www.extratall.co.uk/(with links to other sites in the uk and US http://www.tallgirls.co.uk/ extra wide leg jean COS1694BU extra wide flare jean. With feature back pockets, fixed waist band, belt loops and front zip fly 98% Cotton, 2% Elastane machine washable 36" inside leg (92cms) £42.. or about $80 http://www.petitepersonalshopper.com/contact.html so if you want clothes the uk is THE place to buy them.. just a few links..

Here's the link for the letters: http://www.salon.com/mwt/letters/2005/04/08/torrid_letters/index.html 4 pages of letters, and only one asshat. I have to admit, as I was reading the letters, I was cringing, just waiting for more people saying that we should all wear sackcloth and ashes, but there was only the one. Woo!

so plus clothes encourages fatness? well I guess small sizes encourages anorexia? I am basically sick and tired of the unreasonableness of people, no matter what the facts state and despite the researchers saying it is impossible to force the body to be a certain size not without serious side affects people want to believe the myths about fat people. no matter what some people will believe what they want regardless. oh well, such is life. RR

Even the one negative letter-writer really didn't blame fat teenagers as much as their parents and corporations. However, he is wrong is saying only 2% percent of teens have eating disorders. I would consider any teen who is eating less than she should to meet her nutritional requirements and starving herself to fit into her jeans as having an eating disorder.

Exactly -- the eating disorder (bulimia/anorexia) numbers are known to be well under-documented. "Obesity" is well documented by physician-reported weights, but very few self-report starving or purging (e.g. Terri Schiavo, RIP).

I just read about another woman who died from dieting. She was trying to win a contest to be a Hawaiian Tropic model. http://www.judgmentofparis.com/forums/forum1/messages/1251.html

Midknyt -- I'm 5 foot 2 and a size 14/16 (I seem to be right in the middle there) and when I go to the petite sections of stores, the clothing is cut for really small boned people. The shoulders are more narrow, the tops are all really short waisted (I am long waisted with short legs) and the arm holes are all a little too small. The clothing is just for a waify type of short person. Azkoala - I have a similar problem but I have a small bust and big bottom (a real pear!). I'm out of proportion which is a huge problem. When I go to plus stores, I can't find anything for a size 14/16 with a smaller bust. The tops have all this excess fabric and I don't even bother looking at the underwear because they don't seem to carry bras under double D. Like fat women don't have big bottoms and smaller tops. I would like to shop at the places where you found stuff for fat women with big bottoms and smaller tops. Now, my shoulders are broader and I'm medium boned, so I can't deal with tight little tops, but I'd like something that has a smaller bust and is flattering. I think I just might end up making my own clothing. I made a shirt and skirt in sewing class when I was 13...guess I'll have to brush up on my mad sewing skills, lol. Shopping is depressing.