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Newsweek: Too Much Acceptance

Newsweek International's Lawrence Goodman's Letter From America column titled "Fatsos" is an unfair and critical look at fat acceptance and where it's gone.

Don't expect anything real about the fat acceptance movement. Goodman, for some reason, starts by being up in arms that Torrid exists. As an aside I am really, really curious why there's a glut of men thinking that selling clothes to fat women is "wrong" in some way - Goodman is one of them. He goes on to mention that this, coupled with new scales that handle 400 pounds and the character Hurley on TV's "Lost", means we're too accepting of fat in America.

On one hand, this article makes me happy because it's obvious that fat people are starting - and it has been a damn long time coming - to make a difference. He cites that in NYC, a new fleet of subway cars will have bench seats - not buckets - at the behest of fat rights activists.

Goodman just isn't happy, though, because he feels that fat is a disease... er, "medical condition" (fancy talk for disease,) and that it causes other diseases, all of which have been disproven over the past ten years.

But obesity isn't a lifestyle choice that we should accept and celebrate. It's a medical condition. Research has shown it leads to diabetes, depression, heart disease and cancer. Do we really want to make obesity so socially acceptable that we reduce incentives to lose weight? As Arthur Caplan, a prominent bioethicist at the University of Pennsylvania, told me, "It's one thing to lose weight when your doctor tells you to, another when you can't find a pair of pants to fit you."

The worst part of the whole article, though, is Goodman's final two paragraphs. He takes a very, very condescending look at a woman he sees at Freedom Paradise - you know, the resort that caters to fat people. He notes that she eats a large variety of food despite having heart trouble, and even has seconds. Of course, because we obviously can't have any article about fat people without mentioning that they all eat a ton of food and apparently are the worst people ever. Mixing up an individual's history with the entire history of a group of people is a sign, again, of sloppy journalism.

The whole affair is unconvincing, though. Goodman seems content to simply survey what's going on (supposing that "what's going on" isn't fighting for fat rights in, say, the workplace but being able to get a bustier in a 42D,) comment briefly on how it's bad, provide one stinking quote from one side, and then get in a nice "observational" jab. It's starting to get formulaic. It's starting to sound desperate. And it's starting to show that progress is being made. [Thanks, Sandy!]

Teen Crosses the Border for WLS | Leonard Nimoy's Fat Photographs

Posted by paul on March 20, 2005
Micki March 20th, 2005 | Link | I've said it before: Do
I've said it before: Do they want us to go naked? Torrid has great clothes. Even though they market to the teen crowd, I shop there because I like the styles. Although I'm 46, I like to buy fat teen clothes at other stores too. This writer admits that we're the majority and we're not going away. If anything, we're getting more numerous. More of us need to open fat-friendly businesses and create fat-friendly media now and cash in.
selkie March 20th, 2005 | Link | "Though not overweight
"Though not overweight myself, I have a great deal of sympathy for the heavyset..." Does this man have the same dictionary I do? Sympathy? "Yes, I have a lot of sympathy for the 'heavyset', as long as they wear sackcloth and stay locked in their homes eating carrot sticks all day." I think you're right, Paul. The sudden rise in fat-acceptance backlash can only mean that the message is starting to get through.
jportnick March 20th, 2005 | Link | Clearly the author
Clearly the author associates morality with body size. He is thin, therefore virtuous. Fat people are morally deficient, weak willed, and undeserving of even a seat in the NYC transit system. What "fat rights" group is he talking about, I wonder? Someone has had some influence somewhere. Hooray!
paul March 20th, 2005 | Link | Yeah, I looked for info on
Yeah, I looked for info on that but wasn't successful. If anyone out in NYC can help, that'd be great... I'd like to spotlight the people involved on BFB.
Liz March 20th, 2005 | Link | As a society we are becoming
As a society we are becoming too accepting of fatness????? This guy must operate in different circles than I do. Lately, I have found myself unable to pick up the newspaper or turn on the radio or TV without being hit with one more "expert" telling me how my weight is not only killing me but driving up health costs for thin Americans as well. He seems to think that by making them wear mumus or something similar, we are going to "shame" teenage girls into losing weight. In my opinion, we are mostly likely to "shame" them into leaving their houses as little as possible. No teenager wants to be seen in public in unfashionable clothes, especially a fat teenager who alredy is worrid about being judged for her appearance. It seems obvious to me that if fat teens are able to find fashionable clothes, and get out of the house and be active and socialize, they are much more likely to end up whatever size is healthy for their bodies than if they stay home being depressed all day because they can't find clothes they are comfortable with.
Micki March 20th, 2005 | Link | Fat causes depression?
Fat causes depression? Sure, when we have to read dumb articles like this one, or when we can't find clothes in our size. This moron would be depressed too if people kept telling him that he had to apologize just for showing his face (and body) in public.
azkoala March 20th, 2005 | Link | I love the character Hurley
I love the character Hurley on Lost he is the first fat character that I have seen on TV who is not portrayed as a stereotype. He is smart and kind and was even shown on one episodde to be spurning certain foods because he did not like them. He is also seen running and getting about without any difficulty. He is one of the most likable characters on the show. The dolt who wrote this article is just using this article to air his hatred of fat people. When I was involved in the animal rights movement in Australia we really knew that we were getting somewhere when the media started to report how obnoxious we were.
selkie March 20th, 2005 | Link | Yeah, I love Hurley: "Dude,
Yeah, I love Hurley: "Dude, I'm spry!" :)
EmilyH March 20th, 2005 | Link | Growl. Depression is caused
Growl. Depression is caused by brain chemicals going awry. Not being fat, not being weak-minded, neither being religious nor non-religous, or anything else. People who are depressed need anti-depressants, not forced diets. When are people going to get that straight?
pani113 March 20th, 2005 | Link | Sounds like a paid hack by
Sounds like a paid hack by the diet/pharmaceutical companies. How wonderful it is going to be when the worm fully turns and they get theirs!!!!!
antidieter March 20th, 2005 | Link | if this person thinks that
if this person thinks that society is too accepting of fat people he must be living in limbo land because fat acceptance groups are popping up precisly because they don't accept us. RR
Skeptyk March 20th, 2005 | Link | I have not seen "Lost", but
I have not seen "Lost", but folks I work with are avid watchers. One of them said, "Hurley must be hoarding some food somewhere," and other similar comments about how he is untrustworthy and hiding food because otherwise he would be losing weight. Now, even if the actor who plays Hurley were such a "Method" student that he were only eating what the character eats, her notions about "weight loss" are typical and wrong. It does not matter how much I try to educate, bringing in Campos, Gaesser and Wann books and writing down web addresses for Szwarc articles and BFB, et cetera. Recently, most of the staff there is worshiping (again) at the altar of Weight Watchers, counting points and, once again, the lunch conversation is boring. At anytime of day, food is a topic. Boring. I like food, too, but I don't think about it all day. Yesterday was the 2nd anniversary of the bombing of Baghad, our boss just returned from two weeks of volunteer health care work overseas, but the main topic among the dieters is the dieting, with chronic fixated thinking about food. It is boring, and, what's more, it illustrates the observation (Naomi Wolf, IIRC) that dieting is the most effective tool to suppress the radicalization of women; keep them mad, obsessed and weakened. Yesterday, I was demonstrating against the war, standing as a pallbearer with a flag-draped coffin on my shoulder. But I guarantee you, the lunchcrowd will probably be more interested in the manicotti leftovers I will have, and I will have to listen to how jealous one of them is, how much she craves pasta. Cheesh.
lomaran March 20th, 2005 | Link | If this "journalist" thinks
If this "journalist" thinks that selling clothes to fat women is wrong, I think a bunch of us should show up to his office naked and ask if he still thinks it's wrong. This whole thing really started to get to me until I realized it's just the opinion of one man, who's likely not a perfect specimen of the human species himself.
Casey242 March 20th, 2005 | Link | Exactly wot I was going to
Exactly wot I was going to say Micki. Maybe if ppl left us the hell alone, we wouldm't BE depressed. Our weight doesn't cause depression, ppls' TREATMENT of us does. I can't count the dirty looks, or giggles, I get from skinny young things just one evening at the mall. Another thing pissed me off, too, Lane Bryant is supposed to be for 'plus-size', right? However, the the stupid mannequins they use, and the models in their posters are stick thin. Again, it's a crime to be female, and not perfect ]-:
Terri March 21st, 2005 | Link | It seems like we ARE making
It seems like we ARE making some inroads and that there ARE going to be those who don't like it. Well, tough titty, said the kitty! F!ck them and the horses they rode in on. Hey, GROSSman, you may be "thin" and therefore--in your own narrow little brain--"virtuous", you are ONE UGLY b@stard. Drop dead.
Terri March 21st, 2005 | Link | Also, it's high damn time
Also, it's high damn time they put bench seats on the subways. There is NO WAY even eight so-called "normal-sized" people can fit in one row of those bucket seats. Men--thin and otherwise--sit with their legs W-I-D-E open like it's their damn living room sofa, leaving precious little room for the rest of us--we end up perched atop the ridge, which can be uncomfortable as hell. I wonder how Mr. GROSSman sits. Probably with his ugly legs W-I-D-E open too.
fatfairy March 21st, 2005 | Link | Clinical depression happens
Clinical depression happens when the chemicals in the brain are at the wrong levels. This is something different than feelings caused by stress. I got fat because of taking medications for mental illness, which I'd had and been punished for since 7 or so but was only diagnosed and treated when I was 20.The medications have allowed me to live a semi- normal life(even tho I can't do everything), allowed me to help my friends, take care of my mother for 5 years after her 1st stroke and save the system a fortune, and participate in life. the alternative would have been suicide in my 20s, or total disability.And I'm an evil monster because i'm fat. maybe I should have refused treatment and killed myself. Better dead than fat, right?
Micki March 21st, 2005 | Link | I'm glad medication helped
I'm glad medication helped you fatfairy, and I wasn't trivializing clinical depression. I was just talking about the everyday stress of having idiots talk about fat people like we're some kind of disease. I don't think this writer thinks that fat people are evil, just diseased objects of pity. He thinks if we feel bad we'll magically get thin and be more acceptable to him and his thin friends. Who cares if it's our "fault" or not that we're fat? We deserve to be treated like human beings, to have nice clothes, and to take a vacation where we can feel comfortable.
strawberry March 21st, 2005 | Link | About the subway cars -
About the subway cars - people have been complaining about the small seats for years, and how they were designed by and for east Asian folk, who tend to be smaller. It's even worse in winter, when folks are wearing heavy coats. Bench seats are nothing new - many lines used to have them. They worked okay, because you could take up as much or as little space as you needed.
Mollie March 21st, 2005 | Link | That's it? That's somehow
That's it? That's somehow not long or in-depth enough to get me riled up. It's all haphazard and weird: Torrid! Subways! "Lost"! Fat resorts! Diabetes! Eating! Whatever. There's a certain randomness to this argumentative style, like if you hurl enough darts at the board, something's got to stick. And what's the deal with that quotation about the reasons for weight loss? Is it me, or does it seem to argue the opposite of what he wants it to argue? Also, I'm really not crazy about this "He wants fat women to be naked?" response. That implies that my body's ugliness can be used as some kind of weapon, which I find kind of irritating. Because while I imagine that what's-his-name up there would find my body kind of unpleasant, I think it's a little bit dangerous to normalize that response within the fat-positive community.
ajoyce March 21st, 2005 | Link | Spake Selkie: "Does this man
Spake Selkie: "Does this man have the same dictionary I do? Sympathy? 'Yes, I have a lot of sympathy for the "heavyset", as long as they wear sackcloth and stay locked in their homes eating carrot sticks all day.'" Carrot sticks?? Don't be silly, Selkie. We're not allowed those. Too much sugar. Celery only! (blurgh) Look, it's real simple. Fumentoids like this asshat (who, I'll bet absolutely anything, is a two-fisted alcoholic) don't really care about our health. All they're concerned about is that a) they don't ever have to look at us, and b) we don't ever seek medical treatment for anything, not even third-degree burns, since that counts as "obesity-related health expense." (Hey, if we weren't such obtuse hippopotami with Dorito crumbs on the brain, we could have gotten out of the firepath faster!) But hey, I kind of like the "let's show up at his office nekkid" thing myself. Especially if we get to shimmy around like the sex goddesses we are while he remains sequestered to his chair and FORCED to appreciate us!
semantique March 21st, 2005 | Link | Hee, Terri, I know you're
Hee, Terri, I know you're right. He is just the sort to sit with his legs spread and glare in judgement at all those who sit beside him as if any contact were the fault of their girth. I am always perplexed by the argument that clothing for fat people is an unacceptable turn of tolerance. It has long been my argument that we can measure the hate for fat people based on the fact that it makes the proud capitalists decry a venue of revenue? What? And as everyone else asks: so what exactly does one wear? His article is grotesque from the getgo, and his "how should I put it?" question. The girls are fat, the preface of that question suggests that this is a bad word. His observation of the club is puzzling and hateful. He pretty much enters a place that was created expressly to escape the contempt he holds, and he then mocks a woman in a public forum. I hate, too, when someone makes a broad claim of someone's life-long, everyday eating habits based on a single look at a holiday barbeque. Maybe she hadn't eaten all day. Maybe she eats differently every other day that isn't a holiday. Who knows? And yes, I am aware that it shouldn't matter if she does eat that way-- but still, he doesn't know. But he chooses to paint a distasteful portrait of the fat person as compulsive and unstoppable eater. Charming. So what exactly is his message? That there should be more of his attitude in public so as to ensure that fat people will go away?
Arcadian March 21st, 2005 | Link | It's not as if Torrid is the
It's not as if Torrid is the only plus size store out there...is it? I mean...Lane Bryant (which, by the way, uses size 12/14 dress dummies and all their models are over a size 12), Fashion Bug Plus,Cato Plus, Catherines....all excellent plus size stores. Is the problem that Torrid sells what's "in style" and "off beat", a heretofore un-mapped world in plus size clothes? My issue with what he said is that attitudes like his lead to girls becomming anorexic and bulemic, which are MUCH more unhealthy lifestyles. Does causing girls to hate themselves and become internally self-destructive make health care costs less? I seriously doubt that. And I love Hurley. He's a young, healthy, plus size man with a good head on his shoulders and a great out-look on life...even while stranded on a deserted island. And if people are commenting about him not losing weight...why aren't the other people too?
Casey242 March 22nd, 2005 | Link | I wasn't trivialising
I wasn't trivialising Depression, either, FatFairy. I also take meds. I'm so glad they've made your life better. My case is a much harder one. I ,like Micki, was also talking about how it gets you down the way ppl treat you when you are fat ):
Lizzy March 22nd, 2005 | Link | On the clothed vs. naked
On the clothed vs. naked debate, I just want to chime in with my opinion. I've seen a few arguments about how it's just contemptable for stores to actually sell clothing to plus-sized women/teenagers. These same people have absolutely no problem with the Big & Tall chain, or with men purchasing plus size clothing. To me, only three possibilities exist if it's such a crime to sell clothes to large women: 1) They are of the belief that large women do not deserve to wear clothing. Thus, they prefer that we all go naked. 2) They hold similar beliefs to the Star Trek Ferengi race, who believes that it's disgusting and disgraceful when women wear clothing period. It's a shameful thing that can easily be used as an isult (your mother wears clothes!). 3) They are purely illogical and should be completely ignored as they are completely incapable of making an even semi-logical argument. Assuming he has any logic, this man wants us naked. As for the buffet thing, I could post many examples of skinny people eating TONS of food at buffets. I mean, it's a buffet. The idea is to eat as much as you can - otherwise, you're just wasting money. Yet no one even notices when a skinny person goes back for seconds at a buffet. I remember one time my fiance and I were at a restaurant, and I was going to order desert, but then some of his friends joined us. Since I was feeling down and I was feeling particularly vulnerable, and I didn't know his friends very well, I didn't order desert. Later he asked me why, and I told him that people look at fat people badly when they eat desert. He looked very puzzled and said, no they don't! I explained that fat people are looked down on for eating anything, period, and that desert was particularly bad. He really didn't believe me - I guess because he's a free thinker and doesn't believe everything the news tells him, he assumes that everyone else is like that too. I'm glad there are people like my fiance around, but it's really hard for me to order anything deemed unhealthy in public when I keep seeing articles like this one around.
sdvora March 22nd, 2005 | Link | Lizzy -- I know what you
Lizzy -- I know what you mean about eating food in public. That was always a big obstacle for me. I used to be anorexic (and luckily survived) and during that time, I would never let anyone see me eat a thing, despite the fact that all I ate were beans and veggies. I used to always have a problem eating in front ot people, because I thought that if I ate "too much" people would think: "Oh, that's why she's fat," and if I ate "too little" people would think "Oh, fat girl's on a diet." What a hellacious way to live. Now, when I stop off at the bakery and get a croissant before work, I still find myself eating it quickly at my desk, lest my boss walk in and see me. It's something that I am still working through. As for the author of this article, his hatred of fat people is as clear as day. You can hear the disgust in his last paragraph; the disgust of some thin people when they see someone fat actually enjoying the food they're eating. They are jealous because their lives revolve around forceful restraint of human, bodily hunger. I know; I've been there. Whenever someone reacts to a fat person eating with anger or disgust, jealousy is at the root, plain and simple.
irish red March 23rd, 2005 | Link | This guy is a MORON! He's a
This guy is a MORON! He's a bigot and a snob and narrow minded to boot! He's just like the jerks that made fun of me in elementary school...heartless and misinformed and why I am so sick today. I say hurrah for the new NYC subways-now more people of ALL sizes can sit down, hurrah for Torrid, where young girls can look hot just like their friends and not feel the need to starve themselves to be able to wear 'in' clothing, hurrah for the resort where everyone is welcome-If I could go anywhere in the world on vacation, it would be there, because even though I'm 'normal' by doctor standards (bah!), I never feel comfortable with people looking at my body. It would be greatly relaxing to go somewhere and not be judged. And most of all hurrah for that woman who piled up her plate with delicious food! Good for her! I also have a severe problem with eating in public...Life is short and vacations are for enjoying! Finally, a HUGE 'Boo! Hiss!' to this degenerate clod and his ridiculous article. Oh, and p.s. Hurley is the BEST character on the show 'Lost,' of which I am a die hard fan.
Casey242 March 23rd, 2005 | Link | Wow, Sdvora, you sound just
Wow, Sdvora, you sound just like me. I also used to be anorexic. Funny how nice ppl are to you when you're starving yourself to stay so thin, and those same ppl are mean or ignore you when you're fat. I don't like eating in front of ppl. Mercurior is so sweet, and he's trying to get me past that. Anytime I have to eat at a party, or go out with ppl and eat, I have to get slightly drunk just to keep my nerves from overwhelming me at eating in front of others, and seeing them eat. when I was anorexic it totally groseed me out to see anyone eat. Sometimes when I'm at the food court at the mall, and it's really crowded and and everyone around me is eating, I feel some of that old feeling creep back. It scares me. It doesn't help that crowds give me panic attacks.
mercurior March 23rd, 2005 | Link | i dont mind the idea of
i dont mind the idea of curvy, cuddly women being naked but thats for a completely different reason ;-).. i love seeing a person enjoying themselves, whether its eating, drinking, smoking, if it gives any pleasure at all, then thats fine by me. of course sometimes certain foods are.. very sensual to be seen eaten..but thats another thing .. i think the point is he is jealous, he is focusing on what we arent rather than what we are.. we should enjoy life, love and everything, and a lot of us do.. its part of the acceptence of being fat.
fatfairy March 23rd, 2005 | Link | I used to know a guy who had
I used to know a guy who had such a high metabolism that he had to eat 3 helpings to keep from losing weight. When I told him he should be proud of the moral superiority his metabolism gave over fat people, he looked at me like I was nuts and told me that was ridiculous.i've since figured out that morality usually only involves that a person has control over, so he was right-i was saying something ridiculous. Unfortunately, there seem to be a lot of people out there who believe my wrong opinion. Neither being fat, nor being able to eat everything in sight, never exersize, and never gain an ounce, are not moral issues, but there seem to be some people who the thin=virtue and fat= immoral.I have worked hard to get rid of wrong ideas and bad conditioning, and it annoys me to see someone taking a stand that I finally realized was wrong. At least I had an excuse( mental illness and a childhood full of bad conditioning and wrong messages) but many people have no excuse for their idiocy.I'm actually crazy, but I'm starting to think I'm one of the few people to develop any common sense.
ajoyce March 23rd, 2005 | Link | What I think is funny about
What I think is funny about this dude complaining about Torrid, specifically, is that they only go up to about size 24. Their sizes tend to run on the small side, and in fact girls and women as small as size 10 can easily find clothing there if they don't want a snug fit. I love the store myself, but I don't buy that much there, mainly because their stuff tends to be on the flimsy side (as is the case with their parent store, Hot Topic), and falls apart easily with multiple launderings, so it's not great value for the somewhat inflated prices they charge. I'll buy a few decorative touches or sexy novelties there, but the bulk of my new clothing purchases come from Lands' End (if I want durable) or Target (if I want cheap). They offer the same sizes Torrid does, but somehow it doesn't seem to bother the Fumentoids nearly as much -- nor do Lane Bryant and Catherine's, both far more ubiquitous than Torrid, and both of which go up to about size 32. But something about Torrid, in particular, seems to have the lipophobes' undies in a bunch. And I think it's not so much that they offer clothing in larger sizes, but the *kind* of clothing they offer, that bugs them. Bright colors. Plunging necklines. See-through fabrics. IOW, sexy things. This isn't the kind of demure Mom-wear found elsewhere in sizes 16 and up. This is clothing that says, "Yeah, I'm a big girl, I'm a giant sex bomb, and I'm NOT going away." What could be scarier for a thin person with body insecurities to observe?
Micki March 23rd, 2005 | Link | I bought a pair of jeans, a
I bought a pair of jeans, a pair of pants, and a tee shirt at Torrid last week when all their clearance items were half price. I didn't spend much and the quality seems fine. I've been thinking about the whole idea of people "giving up" because they refuse to try to lose weight. I think a good analogy is gambling. Most people who lose weight by dieting gain it back; over 90%. Most people who gamble lose their money. A few people lose weight and keep it off. A few people win when they gamble. Just as casinos and the state lottery heavily publicize the fact that a few people win, the diet industry finds the few people that lose weight and makes people think that they are the typical case. When someone decides that they have spent enough time and money gambling, most people think that's great. When someone decides that dieting is a waste of time and money and decides to just accept themselves the way they are, they are told they are "giving up."
Lizzy March 23rd, 2005 | Link | Actually when someone
Actually when someone decides that they have spent enough time and money gambling they are welcomed with opened arms and praised for getting rid of their 'nasty habit'. It's a morality issue - it's considered morally wrong by many to gamble, just as it's considered morally wrong by many to be fat. So, giving up gambling is a good thing, while giving up dieting is a bad thing (not my opinion, obviously). As for gambling, it can be extremely unhealthy for many people, and there are many who get that taste of winning and push it further than they can afford in the hopes of breaking even - but even if they do, they continue to gamble in the hopes of winning just a little, then just a little more. Dieting is very similar - it can also be extremely unhealthy for many people, and people get the same taste for weight loss and push it further than their body can handle in the hopes of wearing that dress from high school prom (or whatever goal you want to add here), then they just keep pushing it beyond that. With gambling you rarely get to keep your gains, and with dieting you rarely get to keep your losses. It's a really good analogy, Micki.
liberty March 24th, 2005 | Link | sdvora ... did you read my
sdvora ... did you read my mind? "I used to always have a problem eating in front ot people, because I thought that if I ate 'too much' people would think: 'Oh, that's why she's fat,' and if I ate 'too little' people would think 'Oh, fat girl's on a diet.' What a hellacious way to live." i used to be the same way ... still am, sometimes.

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