Karl Lagerfeld's Ignorance

Lagerfield is showing marketing stupidity. If 68% of people are large or larger, he's limiting his market. Doh!

i live in rochester, ny, and the local h&m stops at like, 14, if that high. when i was going to school in poughkeepsie, ny (about an hour and chance north of nyc) the h&m carried sizes up to 26. i was a 22 at the time, and didn't fit into anything, even the 26. they run VERY small.

What megajerks some of these designers can be! Wouldn't contribute to the profits of such a bigot if I had to wrap myself in a sheet.

H&M's plus sizes are horrible. Everything is frumpy and it does run VERY small. I wear a 22/24 in tops and could barely squeeze into a 26 there. It seems like the whole plus size department was an afterthought and a way to bring in plus size customers without delivering quality clothing. Also, designers like Lagerfeld are notoriously anti-fat or any real womanly shape at all. I think they're more focused on the clothing than how women look IN the clothing. They're more interested in walking hangers. I do wish Mizrahi would take a step into plus sizes for his line at Target because I just love him and the misses stuff is really nice. Sigh.

The thing that bugs me about H&M is that of the dozens of stores in Manhattan, the only one that carries the plus size line is the store in Harlem. And until earlier this year, the only Lane Bryant was also in Harlem (there is also an Ashley Stewart and and Avenue in the same 5 block radius). I have no problem shopping in Harlem, but I think it makes an interesting statement about corporate assumptions regarding ethnicty, size, and shopping habits.

If you don't want your clothes on my body, then I don't want my body in your clothes. They'll probably look like shit on me anyway. He's probably another one of those gay designers who gets the heebie-jeebies at the very thought of womanly curves (aaaah, smothering breasts! vaginal teeth! MOOOOOOMMMMM!). Didn't Oscar de la Renta once say "I don't upholster furniture" when asked about doing plus-sized designs? Of course, he eventually caved in when he realized the "furniture" had its own credit cards. But designers like Lagerfeld and Tommy Hilfiger (who actually once said, in all seriousness, that he didn't want to see black or Jewish people wearing his clothes!) have a certain idee fixe about what clothing should be, and they are very firm that the body (or even the skin) should be changed to fit the design, not the other way around. Screw 'em. I'll buy Lands' End.

Although I'm not plus-sized anymore, I refuse to buy ANYTHING by designers who are fatphobes. I won't contribute to their hatred, and I make sure I let stores know how I feel, too. As far as I am concerned, if they hate fat women they hate ALL women...because many thin women used to be fat, and ANY woman can BECOME fat. I won't let them deivide women like this.

I didn't know that Lagerfeld was even relevant anymore. Even in the fashion industry he has become somewhat of a dinosaur, not because of his age but because he hasn't been able to adapt to the changing times and tastes in fashion. He's still dressing that skeleton, Helen Gurley Brown who, back in the 1980's, said eating disorders in young women might not be such a bad thing.

wow, that's sort of surprising to me. i've always thought H&M was about larger sizes: they start at a 4, for some reason (way to ignore the 0-3 women), and seem to go up pretty far. i've seen larger sizes in both the harlem and herald square branches.

Two new high-end fashion-oriented malls recently opened in my area, and neither of them, so far as I know, has a plus-sized clothing store. I prefer The Avenue, but the only store is in an old, shifty mall that's getting ready to close down. I'm guess it's too much to hope for them to open a new store in one of the ritzy malls. Regarding NYC, there used to be an Avenue somewhere midtown-ish, 30's maybe? I think the Lane Bryant I shopped at then was pretty far out in Queens.

Here in Massachusetts, the HM stores have pretty much stopped carrying anything over a 12 or 14. At least 5 of the stores carried the "BiB" line, but by last year they were down to none. I remember they clothes running small too, especially the maternity clothes. Lagerfield is a bit of a freak, yet he has a perfectly mainstream attitude toward fat women. Then he expresses concern that not everyone in Eastern Europe will have access to his duds due to HM's marketing stategy. Doesn't he know there are fat women there as well?

In light of the fact that Lagerfeld until earlier this year was ninety pounds heavier, this comment is particularly mindbending. (He's even got a diet book out.) I'm always astounded by lack of empathy in the formerly fat. What is that, anyway? A fear that it's contagious?

Like I could afford any of that stuff, even if I wanted it. Maybe if they priced their stuff so that people with entry-mid level instead of just executive level jobs could actually afford it, they'd sell more.

Shyly, please don't think all formerly fat people turn into fatphobes. I'm not fat anymore but I REFUSE to become like the Kirsty Alley's and Lagerfeld's f the world. I decided that when I saw that I was losing weight. I made up my kind back THEN not to become like that. So we're not all like that! :)

Ehhh... I agree with the poster who said "If he doesn't want his clothes on my body, then I don't want my body in his clothes." I think none of us have enough money to use it to support people who take such an attitude. I've said it many times - lots of designers seem to hate (or at least not understand) people with normal-sized bodies; I've found many tops that would fit save for the fact that I have breasts, or that I have fairly athletic shoulders (I work out), or when I find slacks, they fit in the hips but are way too big in the waist (I have curves, darn it, people, why do you design pants that are like they're made for pre-adolescent boys?). I hate clothes shopping anyway; it's all a game of "what's popular THIS YEAR" and usually that doesn't correspond to what I've decided I want. I knit and sew and am pretty expert at both; I make many of my own clothes. And they fit me and they look good on me and maximize the appeal of what my momma gave me. Probably what we need (and I know there are a number of sites listed on this site) is a list of designers/companies that are friendly to people who are bigger and designers and companies who are NOT, so we can vote with our wallets. 'Cause that's pretty much what matters in the merchandising world: not what's right or what's ethical or kind, but what gets the bucks.

ajoyce, is Tommy Hilfiger fatphobic? Or does he have other distasteful ideas? I am just a bit confused as I know he does plus sized clothing. Sorry, I am a bit out of the loop as I am not from the US.

I thought Mizrahi DID have plus-sized clothes at Target (in re: GirlyGirl's comment). I haven't been to a Target in a long time, but when his line came out and the ads for it were on TV, there was a definitely plus-sized woman in the ad in a really nice outfit. Maybe different stores carry different sizes based on their management's decision and/or their perception of the demographics that shop there? If you don't see what you want, complain! "Hey, I shop here and I'll spend more money if you have ______!"

Re Hilfiger: I honestly don't know about his attitude toward fat people. I do remember that one quote, because it just made me go, "WHAT?"

As I understand it, H&M stopped carrying plus sizes in all but three or four stores this summer (Chicago, New York, and LA being the ones I know of that still carry them). When I asked a manager in the mall store in Mount Holyoke, MA why this was I was told that there was too much competition with other stores carrying plus sizes, Lane Bryant in particular. I can not honestly believe that this is true and am more inclined to believe that H&M did not market their plus sized clothes and was not interested particularly interested in doing so. Relatively few people seemed to be aware that they carried plus sizes and it took me an extraordinarily long time to find them, although I actively search out plus sized clothing. H&M has two main lines and, at the moment, one seems to generally go to size 12 and the other to size 16. I saw up to size 14 in most of the Lagerfeld line and 16 in several items.

Is a size 14, 16 or 18 in "regular" clothing lines the same as sizez 14W, 16W and 18W in plus size stores? I have noticed a lot of "skinny women's stores" have up to size 18 sometimes and they don't call sizes 14 through 18 "plus size". IS it the same size, or not?

I try not to buy stuff by designers who've been idiots in public about fat people and "unattractive" women -- but it's so hard to find stuff that I hate to put yet another limit on my shopping! (Btw, I know nothing about Hilfiger, but that particular story about him appears to have been debunked: http://www.snopes.com/racial/business/hilfiger.asp )

venus-- no, it isn't. my sister wears a size 14-16 in "regular" clothing, but even a size 14 "plus" size is too large for her. they're usually too roomy in the shoulder, breast, and hip areas.

OK, I apologize for propagating that particular urban legend. And it was blacks and *Asians,* not *Jews.* I can't even get my false rumors straight. :-{

ajoyce, turn that frown upside down, :) we've all contributed to urban legends at some point. I still spread the one about pop rocks and soda pop (together, they're lethal!). well, not really.

Venus, Janevain: The sizing chart for Newport News provides the following information: 14 39Ω 31Ω 41Ω 14W 43 36 44 16 41 33 43 16W 45 38 46 18 43 35 45 18W 47 40 48

Oh, yes, indeed! We've all spread a legend or two, and I don't mean to be sanctimonious about it! :) But does anybody really understand women's sizing? I usually wear size 20 pants, but I've tried on size 18 pants that were too big and 22s that were too small -- in the same store. And skirts, if you can even find them, consistently run smaller than pants. Why? Sometimes I think large-size manufacturers just stick size tags on at random.

Seriously, catrandom. You'd think they could standardize that shit. I'm a fairly proportionate girl who, not a week ago, found myself trying on a loose size 18 sweater with well-fitting size 26 jeans. From the same retailer.

I think part of the problem is that some brands use vanity sizing and some don't, and it's hard to tell until you try them on. Then, in some brands it's not just vanity sizing, but the way the clothes are cut that make you have to go up or down a size. I wish they'd come out with a replicator like on Star Trek: TNG so we could all get clothes perfectly proportioned to our bodies, and not deal with having to try stuff on again ever.

However, if all if turns out are unflattering jumpsuits... LOL

IMO, Lagerfeld was highly influenced by his mother. I remember reading an interview a few years ago where he'd stressed the fact his mother had been reproaching him to be a little "chubby" as a child..she was a fatphobic. Now, concerning HM, there were a lot of promotion in France about this collection...all the clothes were sold in a couple of hours (even Le Monde, the French national newspaper made fun about the "fashionistas")...and it was also reported what Paul mentioned. The sad thing is that there were little comments about it (except on French size-acceptance boards lol), and moreover, there are still very little clothes shops for plus size women in France...it's almost as you did not *deserve* to be well dressed if you *dare* be more than a size 12 (max size in major popular clothes shops) !!! It's sooooo ingrained in French mentality. that makes me sad.

ajoyce ...speaking of urban legends ... I believe the "I don't upholster furniture" tag properly belongs to Calvin Klein, who was also known to say, when asked why he didn't design for larger sizes, "It's easier for someone to lose weight than it is for me to make my clothes look good on a fat body." Oscar de la Renta is a thoroughgoing, old-fashioned gentleman, and I can't imagine him saying such a thing in public. He's also originally from the Dominican Republic, so I can't imagine him even thinking that; he's been exposed to different body sizes all his life. Even with his clothes for the teenier-sized folks, the shapes have been curved for bust, waist, hips - UNLIKE Mr. Klein's. Feh. Nothing comes between me and my Calvin's - except TASTE.

Dolley- I thought those Newport News sizes sounded wrong, since I have a 34" waist and wear a 16W/18 misses in their clothes. I've always found womens sizes to be roughly a size larger than women's sizes. So, here's what I found on their web site: 14 misses 42-33-44 14W 16 misses 16W 45-35-46 18 misses 18W

Thought something was off with those Newport News sizes, as I have a 34" waist and wear their 16W, and generally, there's only a size difference between misses and women's sizes. I've been in the overlap range all my adult life, so I've got a pretty good grasp of the mysterious misses/W size thing. Sure enough, from their web site... 14 misses: 39-31-41.5 14W: 42-33-44 16 misses: 40.5-32.5-43 16W: 44-35-46 18 misses: 42.5-34.5-45 18W: 46-37-48 Dolley, maybe you copied those measurements from somewhere other than Newport News? Newport New's misses sizes run small, and their womens sizes are normal. I've only seen women's sizes cut as generously as you listed at places like Making It Big. Just didn't want anyone to order the wrong size.

DeeLeigh: Well, that's pretty exciting about the Newport News sizing information; I copied mine from the "Newport News Fit Guide" insert in one of my clearance mailers. I actually have a couple of their catalogs here, and checked to make certain that the one I used hadn't been some kind of freak misprint - and they all use the size guide that I printed above. That is, as you pointed out, a significant difference, and I think merits a WTF? letter to their Consumer Services department. It certainly puts me off ordering anything fitted until they settle the discrepancy. Thanks for the heads-up!

Jessica London recently decided to make up their own size chart. It's another one of those WTF??? deals. I'm a size 22W-26W by most brands, but according to Jessica London's size chart I'm a 32W. I purchased a rain coat from them after measuring myself a few times to make sure I had the size right, and it's really big, but not sure if that's because it's an overcoat or because they can't add. I was really disappointed with the quality, too - it has threads for belt loops. Guess how long that took to break. I have to wonder what their reasons were for the change. Maybe so that they can make the claim that the sell sizes up to 42W (or something like that)? But then that sets everyone up for disappointment...

Lizzy, I have a tedious but possibly helpful suggestion, prompted, actually, by a conversation some time ago with a Newport News rep. (They seem to be helpful, even if the chart confusion isn't.) I was interested in ordering a dress, and was not certain what size to order, since I didn't know how much garment ease was included, and she offered to have someone pull the garment in question and get the actual measurements of the garment in question, so I could compare them with mine. So if you're dealing with a company whose fit is unfamiliar to you, and you want one of their garments, see if you can have someone do the same thing for you. That way, if you compare their garment's finished measurement with one you own of the same style (straight skirt, pants, coat, etc.), you'll have an idea of how their sizing actually runs. DeeLeigh, in your experience, do Newport News' misses' sizes run uniformly small, or do they tend to be small in one area? I know that no matter what size Talbot's skirts are, they're just not cut to fit my particular shape of waist/tummy/hips. Going up a size or three makes no difference (unless I want to wear their skirts around my hips); it's just they way they're sized. Do you find the quality of the Newport News clothes generally acceptable, regardless of the sizing question? Thanks. Oh, and generally: For those who really hate trying on clothes in stores, take basic measurements off garments that you already own (I suggest laid out flat, so you're actually taking a "half-measure") write them down, and bring them with you when shopping, together with a dressmaker's tape measure. A fast measure across the bust, waist or hips will at least tell you if there's a chance the garment you covet will fit, or if you should try something else.

Lagerfeld is a fatphobic jerk. He used to be 90 pounds heavier with a triple chin. This is why I have little tolerance for ex-fatties. Once THEY lose weight, so should everyone else, according to them. Feh.

Dolley- I my experience, Newport News clothes run true to the online size chart and are well made. They're a great value. Their misses clothes tend to be cut small in the hips - true to the size chart (good question). Their 18 misses are tight on me in that area, and normally 18s will fit me. Their 16W is fine, though. My measurements are 42-34-48.

Oh yeah, and sorry about that double post! I thought I'd lost it the first time. Accidently pressed "tab."

DeeLeigh: More proof that some companies, do, at least, pay attention: A couple of days' worth of civil emails back and forth with Newport News did end with this final result: "Thank you for your email. I do see the differences that you are speaking of and have contacted our web master to get the web updated. Please use the catalog version at this time as it is most updated. Thanks again for letting us know so that we can correct this problem." If only all companies were so consumer-oriented.

Well, it's good that they cleared it up, but it means I probably can't buy clothes from them now. There's no way I can fit into anything smaller than a 16W with my hips, but a 38" waist is 4" too big, and that's just not gonna work. I already know that the 18 misses won't fit in the hips. They're only making clothes for apple-shaped and not too curvy women now, I guess. The size chart on the web site was better for me. Too bad.

DeeLeigh, I suggest you not give up; it's still worth your calling and having them give you garment measures on garments you're interested in, and I very strongly suspect it's worth writing to them to say "Hey, what gives? Your clothes used to fit me, but if you're changing the fit to these new measurements, nothing will." I'd have to say that, so far, Newport News seems to be at least trying to be responsive to its consumer base.

I think Karl Lagerfeld's mindset is quite clear in the answers he provided for Vanity Fair's Proust Questionnaire. I've provided one of the answers and the link to the article. How would you like to die? I hate the idea of death—I prefer to disappear … http://www.vanityfair.com/entertainment/proustQA/articles/

In light of the fact that Lagerfeld until earlier this year was ninety pounds heavier, this comment is particularly mindbending. (He's even got a diet book out.) I'm always astounded by lack of empathy in the formerly fat. What is that, anyway? A fear that it's contagious? Well, as my mama always says: Fuck 'im and feed 'im beans! LOL I see it as a win-win situation: He won't make clothes for fat folks, we don't have to worry about spending our money to buy his clothes, making him richer. I wanted to also add that I think some (NOT ALL) formerly-fat folks (FFFs) kinda turn their backs on the fat community in because they are now "acceptable" by their families and friends and members of the opposite sex, so some like to pass around or market what worked for them as if it will work for everybody else, like it's the MAGIC CURE, which is just not true. "If I did it, YOU CAN, TOO!" (Like WLS...ugh............) It's almost as if some FFFs really do become disgusted by other fat people now that they've "slimmed down." Hey, just like they lost the weight, they can gain it right back. Then what? *sigh* Folks trip me out sometimes with the bullshit they like to pull. **stepping off of soapbox now....**