Tomorrow's Fat Acceptance Movement

I think the HAES movement, if successfully marketed and implemented, will have a tremendous impact on the future -- not only for the fat population, but for the population as a whole. Thin people, too, are terribly impact by fatphobia and the "Health" industry and Dieting industry reaps the rewards of this fear from people of all sizes. With a successful adoption of an HAES approach, people of all ages and sizes can live healthier and less neurotic lives.

I envision a world where it’s understood that people naturally come in a variety of shapes and sizes, and that a larger body is not necessarily a reflection of poor health, overeating, or a sedentary lifestyle. In this future world, people wouldn’t be judged by the size of their bodies. There would be more diverse positive images in the media; more actors with a variety of backgrounds and body types portrayed as normal and happy people. Body size would not be considered in any way a moral issue or a reflection of character. It would be understood that there’s no generally applicable relationship between size, eating habits, and activity level; that weight regulation is not a simple calories in = calories burned equation. With these judgements and assumptions removed, people would be free to enjoy food and movement without self-consciousness, guilt, or rebellion. I believe that we’d all be mentally and physically healthier, and that fewer people’s weight would be thrown out of whack, either upward (due to yo-yo dieting and rebound) or downward (due to eating disorders and chronic restrained eating). There would still be thinner people and fatter people, less attractive people and more attractive people, but neither weight nor perceived attractiveness would preoccupy us as they do now. Outside of work and survival, our focus would be on solving society's real problems: improving sustainability, working toward equal opportunity, raising the quality of education, addressing affordable housing, dealing with the gap between rich and poor countries and the issues coming out of economic development, etc. Seriously, these are problems that are so huge, important, and intimidating that we're scared to face them. So, we worry about the size of our thighs. I think it's important to fight the idea that the shape and size of our bodies is all important, and we should control it at all costs. If we refuse to base our lives on controlling the size of our bodies, we can address the bigger issues. I think that many of us are addressing them now, as best we can.

Funny you should post this. I just got done posting a comment on an acquaintance's LJ about how I feel like I'm too fat for the fat acceptance movement and how I feel like there just isn't room for someone who only exercises minimally (if that) and who eats things that aren't nutritionally sound. There's so much emphasis put on "good" fat people, that I am starting to feel really unwelcome. I don't know what the future of the movement is. Because I honestly don't know if there's room in it for someone like me. Is there?

Why not post your thoughts about the size acceptance movement and what you'd like to see it accomplishment? It's as much yours as anyone else's.

I think there is room for you, Natalie. As far as I'm concerned, health habits are totally personal. Fat people need to be included in the discussions of those interested in nutrition and exercise (because many of us are interested, but it's often assumed that, naturally, we're not.) But those of us who aren't interested in nutrition and/or exercise should never feel excluded from fat acceptance. We're a diverse group of people, and we're going to have diverse opinions, interests, and lifestyles. I think the interest in health within fat acceptance comes from our attempt to break down stereotypes about fat people being inherently unhealthy or disinterested in health habits, and from our attempt to recognize that we are just as worthy as anyone else of participating in exercise or nutrition even if we don't lose weight or aren't thin to begin with. For too long, execise and nutrition have been seen only in the context of weight loss and/or beautification, and of course, they go beyond that. But I really disagree with this whole sentiment of "good fat people" vs. "bad fat people." The bottom line is, we're all people, and personal health habits are just that: personal. In fact, one of the things I would like to see the fat acceptance movement help to achieve is the removal of moralism from the health discourse. No one, of ANY size, should be subjected to character judgments on the basis of their health habits. At present, even thin people are at the mercy of this health meritocracy, and I believe it helps none of us.

Oops. Post before last - meant "accomplish," not "accomplishment." Mich, I think you nailed it. There are two problems here: judgement according to size and judgement according to "healthy lifestyle." Health habits are personal. When I say that I'd like to see assumptions about eating habits and activity level disengaged from body size, I'm not necessarily agreeing with the whole health=virtue thing. I don't think that other people's personal habits are any of my business. However, as annoying as the health=virtue idea is, using body size as a proxy for health habits is even worse. People can control their habits to some extent, but they can't directly control how their bodies react to their habits. Ideally, we wouldn't have this pseudo-moralistic approach to health. But, given the status quo, I'd be happier if we were all being held to the same standard of behavior, rather than "become and stay thin by any means necessary, and then you will be deemed "healthy." (and I'd like to note that I'm not some kind of voice of authority, here. This is just my personal opinion, of equal value to anyone else's).

Natalie, There is definitely room for you. Of course, I'm not Mr. Fat Acceptance Movement Gatekeeper, but I doubt anyone would throw a "no" your way. If it's any consolation at all, I'm in a similar boat as you when it comes to exercise and food. It may be the same boat (it has a party deck.) BLR, Yes, HAES should be marketed. I think the great thing, and this is something that Dee touched on a bit, is that a society that accepts (and CELEBRATES!) fat people is one that would be more inclusive of all people. I have more thoughts on this stuff - I just wanted to kick this first set of thoughts out here for discussion. Please, everyone, keep it up.

I just want fat not to be an issue, like, say, having blue eyes is not an issue.  Ironically, that was one of the things I found most amazing about my first NAAFA convention.  It was no longer "she dresses well for a fat chick"; instead, it was just "she dresses well".  It was like my identity was no longer tied to being fat.  I was seen for who I really am, and not just "the fat chick".  It's the closest I've ever come to experiencing what it would be like to not move around in this world defined first and moremost by my body size, and probably the closest I'll ever come to being able to understand what "thin privilege" is like.  I want the world to be like that.   

Natalie, I kind of get what your saying. It sometimes freaks me out when I hear a fat person start explaining that "I exercise and I had oatbran for breakfast". Not that it bothers me that they exercise and eat oatbran, I could careless...but they say those things often to "prove" they are trying to do the correct thing. Like I'm fat but I try so love me and treat me well please." If the topic was about exercise or oatbran that's cool, but you all know what I mean. Like "I'm better than the fattie with the oreos in her cart. I may be fat but damnit I have lettuce in mine, she gives fat people who try a bad name." To me it's like when a gay person says "I'm gay because I was born this way, I want equal rights." I'm like so what if you did choose to be gay? Either way you deserve equal rights. Put the mud down I'm gay I can say it! lol I feel like the fat movement is a warm and special place for me but I totally understand Natalie. However I believe that here on this blog you fit in just fine. I agree with michmurphy comments. I also believe personally at HAES.

Natalie, I know exactly what you mean. I too have felt a little excluded when I read a comment posted by a so-called "good" fat person who exercises regularly, is a vegetarian, hasn't consumed a gram of trans fat in his/her life and doesn't even watch TV! I mean, who are these super fatties anyway? I get the whole idea about breaking down stereotypes, but it almost sounds defensive...like "I'm behaving the way I was told to so you can't yell at me like the other fatties". F*ck it! I watch a lot of TV...I get exercise only incidentally, such as playing with my dogs or walking to the mailbox...I eat a variety of foods, some are considered "healthy", some aren't...and for the most part, I'm perfectly happy with all of those things. Sure I would like to be able to have more energy and stamina, and I'm sure if nothing else my digestive system would benefit from a reduction in the amount of fast food I consume, but like everyone else I am dealing with my own set of demons from when I was forced to diet and exercise as a kid. The whole point of the fat acceptance movement should be to get every fat person the respect that he or she deserves and to stop the public from buying into the stereotypes. We have to start by doing those things ourselves. Respect your fat brothers and sisters, regardless of their food and exercise-related choices. Remember that fat is not shorthand for lazy or greedy or any number of other derogatory descriptors that have been leveled at us over the years. We are all just people who have made our own decisions and are trying to live our lives the way we want. If that kind of freedom isn't worth protecting then we should all just pack it in now. Whew...it's late....I hope most of that was remotely coherent :) Thanks guys, CarrieP

To the people writing posts that are purely in reaction to earlier posts: None of the posters here are the New York Times or Fox News. If you didn’t like some of what has been said, why limit yourself to reacting to it? If you post your own vision for the future of size acceptance, it will have equal weight. This thread would be more positive if there was more vision stemming from critical thought, and less reactive criticism. (... which is what I'm doing, too, so i'll stop now :-)

Hi everyone, I just joined this blog and wanted to greet you all. A year or two back I read some books on fat acceptance but I think I wasn't ready for it yet. I'm back again and learning more. I look forward to reading the older posts and reading you-all's thoughts about this topic.The original post was about what a fat-accepting world would be like in the future. I just finished a book called Manifesta, which was about feminism, but which closed with a short piece "A Day With Feminism" (to close the circle of the beginning of the book "A Day Without Feminism" which described what the US would be like in terms of women's rights if we'd never progressed from 1970). I think this could be amended to "A Day With Fat Acceptance" rather easily, or "A Day With Size Diversity" or whatever. As folks have said above, this would mean that no one would be judged based on body size. Children of any size would be perfectly welcome to participate in sports, dance classes, chess club, school council, drama club, or any other activity. Fat actors would be cast as romantic leads in school plays and Hollywood movies. The word "fat" would be as common and nonthreatening a descriptor as having brown eyes, blond hair, or being tall or short. Fatness would not be assessed as a predictor of personal health, but rather more accurate measures such as cardiovascular fitness, resistance to disease, stress level, and general enjoyment of life. All clothing would be available in a range of sizes and larger sizes would cost the same as smaller sizes. Women and men would no longer be worried about being fat, losing weight, or getting fat, and would thus have more energy to spend on other pursuits such as following politics (where fat politicians would be normal, even female ones) and running for office, giving to charity (using money from the jobs they weren't discriminated against to obtain), doing volunteer work (and not feeling self-conscious about being the only fat hippy), going to protests, watching tv, going to movies (and fitting easily in the seats), going on vacation, eating whatever they want (and not eating what they don't want), moving their bodies in public, having fulfilling sex lives (and being open about it), etc. etc. etc. All these things would be seen as "just life." I think as a result everyone would be healthier. We'd be less stressed if nothing else. Also, because fat people wouldn't feel stigmatized about it, they would be getting more exercise in ways that they would enjoy. No one would be too scared to go swimming because they don't want to be seen in a bathing suit. No one would be afraid to take a dance class or to move their bodies where someone might see them and pass judgement. Also, people would have fewer unhealthy eating patterns, such as restricting and then bingeing, becuase they wouldn't be plagued with the fear of fatness. This is fun!

I keep going back to Dee's final graph in her original post. "Outside of work and survival, our focus would be on solving society's real problems: improving sustainability, working toward equal opportunity, raising the quality of education, addressing affordable housing, dealing with the gap between rich and poor countries and the issues coming out of economic development, etc. Seriously, these are problems that are so huge, important, and intimidating that we're scared to face them. So, we worry about the size of our thighs." The current culture among developed nations seems to have elevate "personal responsibility" to the point of mercilessness. Rather than help, we judge, we blame. We blame poor people and even poor countires for being poor, even though we continue to allow the economic rules to be written to reward those who are already wealthy. We judge and blame AIDS victims. We judge as primitive those countries where we do not understand the culture, and we blame them for the genocide that happens within their borders. We do little to help. We justify on the grounds that someone must be suffering righteous consequences -- perhaps they have disobeyed the laws of "personal responsibity." We choose leaders who apply childish black-and-white constructs to problems that are multifaceted, complex. In a global culture that doesn't approach the BIG issues with any kind of sensitivity, is it a surprise that we judge and blame fat people for being fat? We judge and blame unhealthy people for being unhealthy. God have mercy on someone who is both. This is so small in the grand scheme of mercies denied. There are so many small things that continue to distract us from the big mercies we need to be practicing. The whine of modern culture includes: Your fat infringes on my personal comfort, those two people who want to marry each other are challenging my marriage, and how dare that woman sing my special song in a foreign language! Whine, whine. And meanwhile another million people in Darfur die cruel deaths. I envision a future world in which most countries, and especially the big economic players, find the courage to choose leaders who are kind, thoughtful and understand that leadership springs from wisdom. These leaders will at first outwit and then eventually outnumber their colleagues who define leadership by brute strength. Gradually, the world will calm down and get about solving its real problems with passion and patience. The little concerns of little people will drone on ever more quietly -- flies buzzing in the background. Fat acceptance will be assumed, because fat discrimination will be regarded by most as petty and wrong, a nonissue.

To me this is a step in the right direction. Susie Orbach's AnyBody seems to have renewed its interesting in taking Weight Watchers to court: http://www.any-body.org/ What a blessing to size acceptance if there was a high profile court case exposing the diet industry for the frauds that they are. What a boon to humanity if we could use those billions of dollars and mental energy wasted on weight obsession for something that truly matters! "If we cared as much about CO2 as BMI, there might still be time."

How I see life in 2036: I think it could go either way. It could get worse, to the point where everyone is expected to take some sort of drug to make them thin, or it could get better, to the point where people are accepted for who they are, regardless of what they look like. I hope it gets better.

My dream of the future is similar to what others have posted here. A future where your body shape and size simply doesn't matter. People are seen for who they are and not what they look like.I have mentioned this before and I have to say it  again.  I do not like including the "good" vs "bad" fat person in the language of the movement.  Fat Acceptance is ACCEPTANCE. I don't care what people are eating that is their business, I don't care if they are not exercising, again that is their business.  If we are to work together to help the movement take hold we must drop the mainstream culture way of thinking.  NO ONE is better than anyone else, food and exercise are part of peoples personal lives, they are not moral issues.   We must work TOGETHER no matter how we live our own lives, work together for ONE cause. I don't think we should feel we have to always qualify what we say by starting off with " I exercise and eat a healthy diet".  I am NOT saying that we should not care about our health. I am not saying that when pushed into the "you don't care about yourself corner" that we can't state that we exercise x amount of hours or eat x "healthy" things. There is too much segmentation in the fat movement. It would be wonderful if all size acceptance groups could work together as one force to stop size bigotry and lookism. The way people look should not gain them a free privilage pass.  I am all for fat acceptance but I am also for size acceptance (any  size), I would love to see an end to lookism.  We need to be able to put aside our petty differences and work together.   

I'd like to live in a world where all sorts of human variations -- and come to think of, variations in all of nature -- were honored. Will we be there in 25 years? I doubt it seriously. Not even in 125. We may have been there 10,000 years ago, but since then, we've failed miserably. How to get there? Well...that's a toughie. I think that answer doesn't have very much to do with fat per se. One possible line of attack comes from this theory: I think people need to feel loved in order to then feel loving, and I think there's a lot of dysfunction in most families and individuals in my culture. Until all people fix themselves, they'll always want some scapegoat to make "bad" or wrong or lesser than the horrible little turds they themselves feel like in their worst moments. And personally, it won't make me feel much better if the bigots switch from "fat" to some other group, even if I'm not in that new out-group. To diminish any group is to diminish us all. To allow any bigotry means that it'll eventually come 'round to me again, too. The disease, it seems to me, is not just sizeism but every ism, which either rises out of this internal misery I just mentioned...or is part of some human's innate nature (an idea you certainly could find evidence to support), which means there IS nothing to be done about it, or is part and parcel of the changes the Neolithic Revolution wrought, and I don't see us undoing that, either. Sometimes I think the most powerful thing a person could do to help ameliorate isms is to be like Mr Rogers, you know, the dead guy of PBS children's programming. Try to get them when they're young, and try to instill healthy emotional states then. Adulthood is just too late for most people to change. I believe one thing that will have to happen for fat folks to not be the scapegoat group is for the major governments to embrace the truth about dieting and body size and treat the diet industry as the tobacco industry is now treated: massive lawsuits against WWI and all other dietmongers, banning of diet advertisement from all media, and so on. A major PR campaign that "dieting is deadly, but fat is not" would take years and years to work (look at how many people still smoke, to extend the metaphor). Canada seems to have taken a few steps that direction, but in the US it's "be a 19 BMI" (legislating fashion but against health) and "Fat is as bad as terrorism," which ain't even close.

I want to be able to walk into any shop on the high street and find my size catered for as a matter of course in exactly the same variety of styles, colours, fabrics etc as those offered to my thinner counterpart. Similarly, I'd like the option of purchasing matching panties in a variety of styles when I purchase a bra. I'd like to see every fashion magazine reflecting a wide variety of body types and sizes - and I'd like to see them integrated throughout every feature and in every issue, (instead of the current tokenistic approach of "here's the page for all you pigs we grudgingly produce once every eighteen months. Be grateful, you subhuman freaks"). I'd like never to see the headline, "Lose your gut!" on a men's health magazine ever again. I'd like all health magazines to become just that by taking a HAES attitude. I'd like to see the sales figures of slimming magazines plummet to such an all time low that they eventually become commercially unviable. I'd like to see a true reflection of body diversity in every aspect of television broadcasting - whether we're talking drama, comedy, reality or the evening news. I'd like to see a fat actress play the leading love interest in a Hollywood blockbuster instead of the heroine's downtrodden best friend, the bossy nurse or the overbearing mother-in-law. I'd like to see Jack Black or Oliver Platt get the girl as often as George Clooney or Brad Pitt. I'd like sexual preference for a fat person to be viewed as no bigger deal and no less healthy than any other kind of sexual preference. I'm tired of a culture in which we're viewed as taboo; making perverts out of fat admirers and fetishes out of fat people. I'd like to see a great big, fat sexy vixen on the front cover of Playboy once in a while. All disposable pop culture nonsense as opposed to the serious political issues others have raised – but this is the stuff that surrounds all of us, fat and thin, male and female, day in, day out. (I walk into a shop where my skinny friend can shop and I can't? At best I feel bored and angry; at worst I feel ugly and worthless. Meanwhile my skinny counterpart cannot even imagine what might be in store for her – or, to be more precise – not in store for her – should she ever become significantly larger). I seriously believe that, if fat folk ceased to be invisible, people would no longer view us as "other" and no longer fear becoming us. The word 'fat' would no longer be considered or used as an insult. Society's values would change. We'd be kinder to ourselves and kinder to each other.

Dear Natalie, I could give a rat's ass about how you eat and how you exercise. Isn't that the way it should be? It's no one's business - where do people get off passing judgment based on someone's weight, appearance, or whatever?! I believe the HAES movement may be overstating its case in its effort to fight stereotypes, if the end result is that it's scaring people away. Because really, to me it's all about learning to love yourself and respect others regardless of appearance. Are you a nice person? Do you do good for yourself, your community, and your world? That's what matters to me and I'm a damn sight sick of people deciding they know the answer based on your appearance. To me, THAT'S what the FA movement is about. No more "good fat/bad fat" dichotomy, no more "beautiful = good, ugly = bad" judgment, just being kind to each other and respecting and even loving our differences.

I love this discussion, this wrestling with the frame of fat acceptance. My wishes mirror some of the above and perhaps take them a bit further. I want the fashion mags to show us off, and I'd also love to not be automatically denied promotion or advancement at an employer because of my size. (the fact that I have disabilities [separate and not part of my size] also plays into it.) My discouragement and lack of enthusiasm for HAES stems from a conversation I had with a parent many years ago, an "old tape" that I find difficult to get out of my head. When I was dating someone my parent felt was inappropriate, and actually was engaged to them for a short time, my parent woke me in the middle of the night, and snapped at me, "Just lose weight, and you'll be able to get *any man you want!* [emphasis theirs] I then said, "Don't you get it? Even if I lose the weight and weigh 120 lbs, no matter *what I do,* I'll *still* be the chick on crutches! I can do nothing about that! It's useless, because I won't ever be what you want me to be." I'll never enjoy thin privilege, no matter what weight I am.

"All disposable pop culture nonsense as opposed to the serious political issues others have raised" I don't think it's nonsense at all, far from it. You touched many aspects of our practical, everyday life that would be tremendously impacted by a wider spreading of HAES and SA. I particularly like the bit about the magazines.

Issues like clothing can be more important than they seem, IMHO. The way we dress sends all kinds of messages, and when our options are limited, the way others perceive us (especially if they don't know us well) is affected.

My optimistic view:In the future, people will realize that it's a basic human-rights issue to be left alone (not harrassed) for your life-choices when you are not hurting anyone else. There is no one who would dream of making a snide comment after looking in a person's shopping cart or hearing what they order in a restaurant.The vision of "beauty" has changed and become greatly more inclusive  - to include different ages, different sizes, different skin colors, different body-mods (and I admit some prejudice here: there are some piercings which I just cannot bring myself to like on people. But I realize they have a right to do it and it is important to their vision of themselves).Attractive and flattering clothing is available in all sizes, without fat people being ghettoized in "fat people stores." Designers would not dream of making clothes that could only be shown on what is considered an "attractive" model today (that is: women who are tall, blonde or "exotic" Black women, and under a size 8 or so)People are taught basic health and nutrition in school so they know the current state of the science, but are left to choose how they live their life.A diversity of food - including fresh fruits and vegetables and good baked goods - are widely available and priced well within the range of everyone's budget. And there are programs to help those who cannot easily afford what they need to eat.For people who want to be active, there are safe places to walk, jog, swim, dance, do tai chi, whatever they want to do. "Safe" in all senses - not only "safe" in the sense of "you will not be raped when you go out for a jog" but also "safe" in the sense of "no one will judge you for your size, lack of skill/coordination, or what sport you choose to do (if any)" My pessimistic view?There will be scales at the door of every grocery. You will be weighed before you go in and will only be allowed to buy foods "compatible" with your desired weight. Furthermore, your blood fat and sugar profiles will be logged into the store computer and the store will be prohibited from selling, say, a standing rib roast to someone with a blood cholesterol greater than 160. the Stomach-Stapling surgery will be routinely pushed by physicians, and in some cases, court cases may force it on people "for their own good" (not unlike involuntary committment)It is considered good practice to ridicule those who are different, until they conform. There may even be "camps" to "teach" people how to fit in with what's desired.Young children who aren't "pretty enough" will receive plastic surgery to make them more attractive.There will be no shame seen - and it will be considered by some to be a societal good - in parents aborting fetuses that are shown to have a genetic tendency to fatness, unattractiveness, low IQ or other "undesirable" traits. There will be a small band of "refuseniks" (of which I will be one if I am still around) living deep in the mountains who have a few "socially acceptable" members to go into the nearest town to buy supplies. The "refuseniks" live communnally and plot an overthrow of the current dysfunctional society, so they can implement something similar to my optimistic plan... 

This topic is a tough one to answer, because no matter how zealous I am in my fat rights beliefs, I really do have a pessimistic view of the future. The main reason I do is because 30 years from now I'm sure there will be some sort of pharmacological regimen that will 'safely' abolish fatness at least for those with a BMI of 30 or higher. A group of drugs that won't get pulled off the market like phen/fen was, and it will be hard to put that up against HAES and win, I think. So, in 2036, the only fat people you'll see in the US will be militant fat rights people and the poor, which in 2036 there will be a lot more of, due to the increasing lack of health insurance and the increasing income gap between rich and poor. I don't think any of this will change in the short term, especially with the mania our culture holds for genetics. My big reason for pessimism is, by comparison, the fact that even though no reputable medical/science establishment finds homosexuality a disease and/or something that should be 'cured,' scientists still are on the hunt for the genetic 'cause' of homosexuality. Since the leading institute for genetic research is a for-profit enterprise, why would this type of research be going on if there wasn't a market for it? And what kind of market would it be? Pre-natal testing? Or what would happen if someone was gay but didn't have the genetic marker for it? Would they be expected to be 'made' straight? These questions are meant to highlight that scientific inquiry is never innocent, and while we may think the quest for knowledge is a good thing, we as humans can never just leave the quest once we've found our answers. So what good could come from knowing what sequence of DNA may or may not have caused your sexual orientation? I ask these questions because fat is following the same model, and unlike homosexuality, most major medical/science groups say fat is bad and should be cured, and I don't think 30 years will be enough time to convince them otherwise. Especially since we can't convince the majority of fat people themselves yet. That should be the focus of the next 30 years, converting the fat majority to a fat-positive, HAES POV. And that is the problem I don't know how to solve, other than to try and focus on creating a fat community/culture as vibrant as those in other more readily defined identity groups. I know in these postmodern times identity politics are bad, we're all just one race, the human race, and so on and so forth. But if we have nothing to offer the fat bigots other than 'nature made me this way,' then when the 'obesity cocktail' hits the drugstores, and every doctor from your dermatologist to your dentist is trying to prescribe it to you, how else will you be able to make a claim for the right of your fat body to exist? Who knows, maybe in that scenario, a series of drugs with few side effects that eliminates fat, plenty of people who are otherwise pro-SA may not be anymore. Sorry to be so pessimistic, but nothing I've said is sci-fi, and 30 years is a reasonable timeframe to see these types of drugs on the market. Please tear this nightmare scenario apart with some optimism, please, since I could sure use some. Yet again, didn't edit this too much-sorry.

I really liked this question, but I, too, have a pretty pessimistic view of where we will be in 30 years. I first discovered size acceptance (NAAFA) in 1985. It was a great time for SA because Dr. Albert Stunkard was publishing his research with adoptees and identical twins - and showing beyond a shadow of a doubt that fatness is mostly genetic. So where are we 20 years later (after 1985)? BigNaziDiet has dominated worldwide media. A majority of people have never heard of size acceptance and many of the ones who have think we are just a bunch of whiners. The "average joe" in the street doesn't want to hear our message; wants desperately to think that weight loss is possible. I think that some of the early successes of size acceptance caused the diet industry to decline for a year or two. And "they" decided to crush the resistance. Hence the continual barrage of bogus "research" that the media just eats up. I despair of reaching people. And I don't think there will be some kind of magic pill. The management of body weight is an astonishingly complex physiological process. Fatness doesn't have just one variable but thousands. Some of what lay people call fatness is just human bodies working exactly as they should. If there ever is a magic pill, it won't exist until medical science can design an individual pill for each person. Even that still won't "fix" bodies that are already working correctly. I really think we have to brainstorm this question a lot. And we need to be attentive to the results of past efforts. This is the core question for size acceptance. Where do we want to be in 30 years and how are we going to get there? I would prefer we didn't just keep doing the same things over and over again.

Smart response, Carolyn. Let me just clarify one thing about my response-I'm talking of a variety of pills one would take to 'manage' their fatness, not just one magic pill. Therefore each individual would have a pill mix calibrated to their own bodily responses. It may take longer than 30 years, I'll grant you that, but science will come up with a 'safer, more effective' way to lose weight other than our current WLS and Meridia. What should we be doing different, I wonder? Other than my suggestion for focusing more on fat culture/community, I don't know what else to propose. I'd love to hear your ideas on this, Carolyn.

That was such a flattering way to ask for my ideas that I have been struggling to come up with some ideas for you, jlm. I just have some observations. 1. The "science" used against us is utterly bogus. We've used this point - but people I've talked to WANT to believe the bogus science. In every discussion I've had, I have no problem convincing people that there are thin people who eat large quantities of food and don't gain. But they absolutely refuse to accept the opposite. They refuse to believe that diet's don't work. They refuse to believe that fat people are mostly healthy. 2. Fat people who haven't accepted a size acceptance viewpoint - WANT to believe they can change themselves easily. They really recoil away from our "Diets don't work" message. 3. The core of the anti-fat-people/lose-weight-at-all-cost mentality really seems to center on appearance. People who don't like us - don't like us because of the way we look. And maybe that then gives us an "argument" that we can use to our advantage. It has nothing to do with health or science. It is about attitudes. Well, if we could find a really rich person to run a bunch of size-acceptance ads, to pay for size acceptance health research - well, then we'd probably make some gains. The weight-loss-industry-nazis have the big bucks. And our American media buys everything they put out. Our grass roots activities on the internet have flourished - and maybe that can be used to our advantage. I'm rambling now. I do wish I could come up with some brilliant ideas to help our cause. I've spent 20 years working for size acceptance and in that time, the world seems to have gotten worse for fat people. The rhetoric is louder and more vitriolic. The weight loss industry is winning the hearts and minds of the general public. All I can say is that they haven't won me, or my husband or my daughters. And they've haven't won us here on this board and never will.

In 30 years I hope I can walk down the street and smile and make eye contact with everyone I meet, without fear that they will judge me for my size. I hope I can walk into a restaurant or theatre and sit down, without having to carefully scope out the seating. I hope I can walk to my seat on an airplane without feeling like I have to condense myself into something the size of a salt shaker. I hope I can go to a job interview and not see that disappointed look in the interviewer's eyes. I hope I can see a lot of people in a variety of shapes, sizes, and modes of dress going about their business and looking comfortable and contented. I hope I can do things with other people and rarely hear anyone talk about dieting or body size. When people talk about exercise and movement, I want to hear them talking about enjoying it and not doing it as penance for something they ate or as something they have to do or else bad things will happen to them. I hope I can choose simply not to think about my size or anyone else's for days at a time, and focus on other important issues. I'm a fat activist as a matter of personal survival but I don't really WANT to have to think about it all the time.All that sounds selfish, but I'm also thinking about what changes that would have to take place in society for these things to be true. There would have to be a radical shift in the marketplace so that corporations weren't trying to make money off of stuffing more and more people into things, making people feel bad about themselves, making people feel chronically unhealthy in ways that require them to spend more and more money to fix themselves. There would have to be a radical shift in work attitudes so that rigid conformity was no longer required. There would have to be more emphasis on personal enjoyment of living and less emphasis on competition and hierarchy. Acceptance of diversity of all kinds would destroy the current corporate culture, which is built on making people afraid not to conform to a narrower and narrower standard.

Yet another Newbie here. Hiya Folks, I seem to have stepped into the room just as the REALLY hard exam questions are being handed out, but. . . . On the subject of ‘Looking Forward’, one of the threads I seem to see running throughout is ‘No Judgments’. So here I go . . . 2036- In a Perfect World, skin color, age, body size/tone/shape, religion, sex, sexual orientation, and disability, are irrelevant. Groups and individuals are judged, if they are to be judged at all, by their contributions to society rather than by some ill perceived place in it. What do I feel is more likely? We'll hit some undefined, social, tipping point and the fat persecution we all know and love will either fade into background noise or go critical mass. In the former scenario, I imagine we'll enjoy as much obsequious and covert discrimination as we do today. In the latter I foresee something very much similar to the rabid pursuit smokers now find themselves subject to. 'Smokers? Did he say SMOKERS!? He just joined and he's already raising hackles'. I know, I know. Sorry but, as a smoker who has quit and then fallen/jumped back off the wagon once or thrice, the one thing I've always sworn I would never be is one of those priggish, supremely self-righteous, former smokers. Consider for a minute some of the bans California’s almost rabid Anti-smoking lobby are pushing for now that they have at least one city established where smoking is banned on public sidewalks California Considers Smoking Bans for Cars, Apartments. Pretty absurd when you realize that you can shoot heroin on the public benches in some San Francisco parks and nobody will bat an eye, but try to light one Camel and somebody’s likely to call the cops. There is, of course, the argument that cigarette smoke can be actively intrusive while being fat is no bodies business but your own. But how often do we hear, even supposedly intelligent, people mouthing some variation of the ‘I don’t want to have to look at that/them?’ platitude. Who hasn’t endured the dirty looks and muttered comments about having to sit next to an extra large person in a too cramped space on the plane/train/bus/what-have-you? At one time or another we’ve all felt the malevolent disdain directed at us because someone might have to sit next us and actually be in contact with fat. As if I have any desire to have my fat, or any other part of my body, in contact with them. But let's back to the subject, shall we. Anyone over the age of 35 can tell you that life in the land of the Free does tend to be cyclic at times/ Remember the Politically Correct movement that nearly castrated intelligible conversation (Anti-Male and sexist for assuming ‘conversation’s gender) for fear of offending someone, anyone. . . Everyone. Or the knee-jerk Zero Tolerance rules in enacted in some Schools after Columbine . Rules that ended up, in some cases, getting high school newspaper editors expelled or even arrested for publishing articles that expressed displeasure with the faculty. What might really be ‘Possible’ in a era where passing laws to protect people from their own personal choices (We’re only doing this for your own good) or going to extremes to ‘protect’ others from some half defined ‘threat’ is considered logical. How bad could it get? Well this IS America so I don't think we can expect ethnic cleansing or refugee camps on the border of Mexico (Not all that sure Canada wouldn’t be just as bad or worse then the US in that kind of extreme nightmare scenario), but covert or even overt discrimination? If your fat in America and happen to believe that you've never experienced it I'd have to ask what planet your really from. Or suggest that perhaps you really haven't been paying enough attention. We already have employers threatening people’s jobs if they don’t lose weight and using the excuse of ‘Higher Health Insurance Risk’ as justification. That is, if you manage to get hired in the first place. Right now Interviewers are much more likely to pass over, eminently qualified, overweight applicants for under qualified thin ones Could it actually be possible to enact legislation against fat in 2036, the year of optimism and hope? Well I, for one, intend to keep an eye on how far sunny California gets with it’s anti-smoking witch hunt and one hand on my voter registration card. Just in case.

Whoops!! The link to that Heartland Institute article, 'California Considers Smoking Bans for Cars, Apartments', should be- >>http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=18967