Dove Keeps On Keepin' On

And hey, they kept me entertained for about ten minutes :) I think the marketing people at Dove *get it* but it's hard to sell a lot of product if you go around waving flags. I guess they have to go the subtle route. I can't blame them for that.

I think I'd have more respect for Dove's "campaign for real beauty" if the company wasn't the same corporation (Unilever) that makes Axe. If you haven't seen the Axe ads yet you're missing misogynist knuckle dragging at it's finest. (The UK has a product like Axe with the ad tagline "Spray more to get more" but I can't remember the product's name right now.) You'll notice in the Axe ads that there are no women of average size, because while it's ok for women to feel good about themselves, no man is going to want them unless they can squeeze into Barbie doll jeans.

For some bizarre reason, my company is blocking the Dove site. Does anyone have another link to the article elsewhere?

I think this may be a case of the road to heaven being paved with questionable intentions. Yes, they're doing it for profit, but yeah, it's still a positive message, being spread far and wide by the big corporate bucks. You go, Dove.

Set aside your contempt for a moment? Contempt for Dove? For Unilever? For magnetic poetry?

Okay, this is bizarre. I don't get why my company blocked the above link. I've read other typepad pages at work with no problem.

Proxy servers can be a pain.  Mine at work blocks out some partner company websites sometimes, and then I have to nicely ask the techs to let those through.Back on topic, I was all for the Dove campaign until I just now learned about their relation to Axe.  I'm sorry, but that campaign is absolutely horrible for women and their self-image.  Yes, it's nice when there are campaigns out there with positive messages, but they're just completely countering that with their horrible messages that women are only useful as sex toys and only if they're size 0 or smaller.  Disgusting. 

Then perhaps a letter-writing campaign to Unilever might do some good. Just a thought.

one of the problems with the dove campaign is that even if they have marginally opened the definition of acceptable bodies in the media, they are still selling stuff to fix those bodies! i hate to be completely cynical, but sending out a few magnet poetry kits that have body and love in them to use seems like a drop in the bucket (financially and socially) considering how much the corporation rakes in by sending out a message that no matter* what you look like right now, its not good enough, so buy these products to fix your faults and be a better person. its classic advertising at its worst. * i would qualify this and say, even if you are up to a size 12-14 (at most) and look pretty conventionally beautiful in some white underwear. 

they are still selling stuff to fix those bodies!I understand the various and valid concerns that people have with the Dove campaign. Maybe the world would be a better place if nobody sold beauty products. But Dove happens to be in this particular business, and they are the first and only company to advertise using "size 12-14 women who look conventionally beautiful in white underwear", rather than size 0 airbrushed teenage girls. Yeah, it's a small step forward, but at least it's in the forward direction! I applaud them.

You know you damned if you damned if you don't. At least the message is getting out there on some level by a major company. That beats NO major company and someone has to start somewhere. I'm no flag waving Dove fan but at least we are getting our message out there and for free at that. I bet not 5 people on the street even know Dove main company makes Axe. I also bet they are like some other major companies where the Dove people does only Dove products and handle advertising via a 3rd party and the Axe team targets a different market. For all be know is the Dove team is pissed off at the Axe team for what they're putting out there. The big guys up top don't care as long as there is a profit. At least someone, somewhere in that company had the balls to try something new, to appeal to us. Then we start to complain that the models are big enough, they're not sincere, they out to make money (of course they are they are a business.) I for one am glad to see something different for a change. A start. Maybe other companies will try then the next thing you know people of all sizes will be seen on tv, business will still try and make money but at least our message will be seen by little kids that they are fine in their size even if they have to watch soap. Hey everybody needs soap. Plus we have no economy if stuff isn't sold. Sometimes through bitterness and conviction we start to see only negative in everything. Change takes time maybe today Dove then they axe Axe or something.

Note in the original post: I'd like to set aside my contempt for a moment... That was referring to the Mega Company Can't Do Anything Right attitude. I know how you feel. I feel that way, too. (I hate Axe's marketing, too!) But take all of that away, and you have a nice, body-positive magnetic poetry set. That in and of itself ain't bad.

I think the Dove ads are wonderful! Some of my students are in advertising and one student did her report on body image and used the Dove ads as a sign of progress. She was smart enough to recognize all the challenges ahead of her in making changes in the mindset. In the ad world, the Dove people are doing a really brave thing. Almost herecy by ad values. I think it is important for consumers to get behind them. Because if the campaign is not successful, no one in the ad world is going to think it was because they didn't go far enough. They will use it as proof that only unrealistic images sell. We have the opportunity to be part of a paradigm change. I for one will write Dove and buy a product here and there as long as they keep this campaign going and don't do anything offensive like pair with Weight Watchers. I don't know who Axe is, but is it fair to blame Dove for who else the parent company owns? I understand hating Unilever, but the management at Dove probably has no say whatsoever in who the parent companies owns. It is probably a different ad company. By only focusing what is wrong with Unilever, we are really punishing those risk takers at Dove. It would be great to give them enough support so that others in the industry get their point. Then once the table is beginning to turn push harder. BTW, if you really hate Unilever, don't buy Ben and Jerry's, Ponds, Vaseline, Lipton Tea or Birdseye frozen foods either.

Sorry, pckim, I didn't see your post, or I wouldn't have said so many of the same things! I totally agree with you.

As for me, I appreciate that Dove is using average sized bodies in an ad campaign. It's a much needed and welcome change! And it also illustrates how deep the sexism against women is...you just have to look at some of the media's response to the ads. And the fact that using an average size woman is considered radical, brave and well, to some--herecy, shows how far there still is to go. But I support Dove, I use their products all the time and I'm glad they're available. I know "beauty" products are marketed to "fix" what there may be nothing wrong with, but they can also be quite useful. They enhance, accessorize and can be a lot of fun! For me though..I'm tired of seeing womens bodies unclothed every-freakin-place I go. But at least Dove doesn't portray them as vacant-eyed, vacuous, whore du-jours. So that's a plus! : ) And I feel the same annoyance and frustration when a parent-company has other companies with regressive values, but I guess you have to balance out whether it's worth giving it up or not...I know, all those years ago, even though I HATED Larry Flint, I still subscribed to BBW magazine. It was a sad day when BBW and Radiance ceased printing. Oh well, enough down memory lane.

i still respectfully disagree with all of this love for dove - i highly doubt that this advertising plan is a way to help size acceptance/ fat activism and instead a way to open the market and profit from our own varieties of self-loathing, fed to us by many a company like dove. "Sometimes through bitterness and conviction we start to see only negative in everything." i don't think i am bitter, i think i am extra-cautious and cynical about such seeming changes of heart.

And we've had the love/hate Dove discussion in general before (have a stroll through the archives, using the search on the front page.) Anyway. Here's the thing, and may be part of the crux of the problem: it's hard to find an equivalent of this takeaway, this promotion, from a "pure" fat lib organization (or company or...) Thus, we are left to use what's out there. This is it. I want people to show me things that we are creating and we are doing - but until then, I'm happy to point to this particular Dove promo as something good. (Dee, maybe you want to elaborate on this a bit with regards to fat culture?)

I have no delusions that Dove did the "Real Beauty" campaign with altruistic motives. When you look at the numbers, it makes financial sense to go after the plus size community dollar. Still, it does take some advertising guts to go for it. Think about it - not even plus size women's clothing stores aren't "brave" enough to use plus size women in their advertising and catalogues. I once asked why that was, and was told by a rep that their surveys indicated that larger people don't want to see people "just like them" in the clothing. (Apparently they felt we wanted to engage in the fantasy that we were as small as the models in the clothing.) Complete nonsense, but there it is.

Hmmm... that line should have read: not even plus size women's clothing stores are "brave" enough to use plus sized women in their advertising and catalogues. That's what I get for talking on the phone and posting at the same time.

This is just after doing a quick scan of everyone's posts.  I saw a few that mentioned something along the lines of "products being marketed to 'fix' our bodies."   Me personally?  Well yeah.  I don't think there is a single way you can construct my trying to keep my dry skin under control by using Dove soap as bad body image.  There's a big difference between fixing what ain't broke and maintaining what is already beautiful.  And that's exactly what I think of when I see those ads.  

I think I am missing something. Is it just supposed to be a picture of magnetic words? I don't think Dove is even on the radar of fat acceptance/fat lib. Seriously.

Yes, Dove may be a step forward.  A very, very tiny step forward.  But my issue is that while Unilever is taking a baby step forward, they're taking 3 huge steps backwards with Axe.  I've been disgusted at the Axe commercials since the first one I saw, and I honestly think they're worse than any commercials I've seen when it comes to the way they present women as sex objects and only shows women whose entire skeleton is visible through their skin.I have no problem with sexuality in advertising, either.  I only have a problem when one sex is treated like their only value in life is being a sexual play thing (yes, that does include the Bounty and I Can't Belive it's Not Butter commercials).It's like the Crystal Light commercial.  I think it's great that they have this beuatiful fat woman and they talk about her positively.  But they're still trying to make women feel like crap about their bodies and trying to convice them that they need to drink their diet drink to loose weight.