Fluffy, Big-Boned, Curvy, Well-Rounded, Large and In Charge
NancyKay posted an interesting link in the Forums to a post at Jezebel about Nigella Lawson and how she feels bad about her body. Lawson in the original piece in the Times Online:
In her TV series, Nigella plays on her low opinion of self-discipline (though she clearly has enough of it to run a family and a mega-career), but in so doing, she is putting herself firmly in what we have come to regard as the fat camp. That is, among women who embrace pleasure and don’t beat themselves up about it – as opposed to the skinny camp, which sees containing their desires and bodies as a continuing challenge. It’s the latter camp that Nigella thinks is a threat to normal feminine existence. “In my experience, the weight thing is an almost totally female problem. I never feel bad about my weight around men, only women. Women act like it is somehow a moral failing to have hips.”
The author, Shane Watson, takes this "fat camp" versus "skinny camp" idea all the way and suggests that women are doing all of this to themselves - building on Lawson's sentiment.
But here's something else worth noting. Over at Jezebel there are comments like this: "She's curvy, not fat." "Soooo not fat." "She's not skinny, but she's not fat." "She's not fat (because she's not.)"
Again, here's where there's an enormous value judgment on the word "fat". Am I the only one really tired of this? While we come up with dozens of synonyms and "polite" ways of saying fat, we're avoiding the real issue: that there is nothing inherently wrong with fat. I'll say it again: there is nothing inherently wrong with fat. But we're quick to throw out "fluffy!" or "curvy!" or "big boned!" or anything like that.
We ultimately need to stop being afraid of this word. There's a reason this site isn't called Big Fluffy Blog, or anything like that. Fat is simply a descriptor, an adjective. It is a part of who we are - and we should be proud of it.
I wish people would drop this idea that there are invisible lines where people cross over from "not fat" to "fat" to "very fat".
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Posted by paul on December 4, 2007
Personally, I find Nigella a bit patronising on her show, but that's just her personality... nothing to do with her weight. I do notice that a vast majority of the "OMG she's sooo fat!" comments come from other women. The more manly comments usually boil down to "hubba, hubba". Speaks volumes.
I agree, Paul - I personally hate and don't use any of the euphemisms we label ourselves with in efforts to avoid the big F word. It's one of the reasons I titled my blog as such; fat seems to be a four-letter word for so many.
On a related note, I hadn't heard of Nigella Lawson before I saw this news story a few days ago. But I find ironic that the predominant focus on most female celebrities is always, always on their weight. I know nothing of whether or not Lawson is a great actress, if she supports any causes or campaigns, an/or what her training is in. All I know is that some British people think she's a "porker."
I agree with Lawson - the most scrutiny and criticism I've received about my body has been from other women. Fat cows versus skinny bitches; fat camps versus skinny camps.... all it reflects is a division amongst women. I find it so endlessly sad that a site that purports to be pro-feminist has devolved into the same old irrelevant in-fighting and bickering.
Personally I've always had more guy friends specifically because I did feel they didn't judge me based on my appearance as much as my abilities. I still have trouble relating to women even though I've managed to hold onto a few female friends.
I've never heard of the woman, but I agree with the sentiment that fat shouldn't be any more of a bad word than tall, short, thin, brunette, etc. It's a description of a body shape, not a judgement on it. I'm personally offended by Myspace's set options to describe your build. They have the usual "thin" "Athletic" "Muscular" but then they travel into euphemisms. "A few extra pounds"? Yeah, I carry them in my back pocket in case someone wants to borrow them. The worst one is the "More to Love!" description which is the only option for fat people. WTF? It's cheesy and condescending. I'd much rather have "fat chick" as an option. I'd even rather have BBW/BHM although that bugs me only slightly less.
On the other hand, while debate over whether someone is considered fat is purely subjective, it would be like arguing whether someone is tall or not. One of my friends is 5'11". To his girlfriend, he's tall. To me, he's not tall. I'd call him average. If he was put up as an example to tall people, I'd argue the label. That doesn't mean I put a value judgement on it
One of the first comments says "she's only comfortable around men because they like her rack." Talk about your vicious, jealous women. It really is sick the way we are socialized to tear other women down.
What I can't get over is the headline "Nigella Lawson feels bad about her body," when from the text of the piece, she not only doesn't feel bad about her body but recognizes that it's absurd that anyone thinks she should.
I am so gonna start calling this Big Fluffy Blog.
I love using the F-word! It's fun and it's political.
Paul, I agree with your comments about euphemisms for fat just perpetuating fat hate.
There's a basic irony to Fat Lib. I identify as fat because I live in a fat-hating society and so, to fight the hate, I identify proudly as fat. But my main goal in fighting fat hate is to convince people that the line between fat and thin is not true or necessary or beneficial but that it is in fact arbitrary and harmful and wrong. (So I'm working for an end to interest in weight categories like "fat" or "thin.")
This fat/thin dividing line is the basis for all weight-based prejudice and discrimination. (The fact that the line shifts around depending on which chart or which government or which clothing retailer or which reality tv show you consult, just adds to the crazy-making power of the line.)
The big three defenses of the fat/thin dividing line are...
1. the notion that fat people could easily cross over to the thin side
2. the idea that weight equates to health (i.e., fat equals unhealthy and thin equals healthy), and
3. the idea that fat is inherently ugly (while thin is inherently beautiful).
If, instead, we insist on celebrating weight diversity because it's physically, psychologically, and politically damaging to attempt to change any person's weight beyond their natural setpoint range...
If, instead, we point out the physical, psychological, and political benefits of the Health At Every Size paradigm, compared to the concomitant risks of the weight-focused paradigm of health...
If, instead, we recognize that denying the possibility of beauty to an entire demographic group is not, in fact, an aesthetic, but rather the definition of ugliness...
...then we'll be that much closer to a body-liberated society, one in which people of all sizes will be able to live life fully and make full contributions of our talents, unhindered by fear of food or fear of our own bodies or fear of widespread hate. And it won't be necessary to identify as fat or thin. Fat or thin will be just an intriguing detail about a person, one among so very many!
I can't watch Nigella's show because of the way the camera wiggles around - it makes me ill! Nonetheless, she and Oprah are the largest women that I regularly see on TV since Two Fat Ladies finished - and I think that's really, really sad. There's no shortage of larger men (though I think not as many as there used to be) and, considering which gender most TV executives are, I think that Nigella's comment about hostility from women is not entirely accurate. Women may be hostile, but men are the ones determining which "fat" woman is acceptable for public consumption! As more women climb into the executive media ranks, I wonder which way the pendulum will swing?
Unfortunately, many people aren't using "fat" just as a descriptor -- "fat" has become a word to use to hurt a woman's feelings (whether it's true or not). It's also becoming, or has become, verbal shorthand for a variety of negative attributes (as has been pointed out on BFB before) -- including laziness, stupidity, gluttony, lack of willpower, unattractiveness, unhealthiness, and asexuality.
These, as we all well know, are a stereotype.
The same people who would never DREAM of telling an anorexic to "just pull up a chair and take a bite of this banana-cream pie! All it takes is a little willpower!" won't hesitate to judge us according to a stereotype. Makes me wonder if they really know any real-life fat people (as opposed to caricatures in the media).
As far as fat being a "lifestyle choice" prompting complaints about how we awful fat people burden the healthcare system, whiners need to be asked if they'd deny treatment to
~ Alcoholics with cirrhosis of the liver
~ Drug addicts (for addiction)
~ AIDS patients who contracted HIV through unprotected sex or sharing needles
~ a skydiver whose parachute failed
~ anyone with a STD (other than a victim of rape or incest)
~ Smokers with lung cancer
~ Babies whose mothers never got prenatal care or screening
~ People who've been in auto accidents (after all, they CHOSE to get on board or drive)
~ etc.
I suppose these parallels are just too logical. (Maybe we could talk Nimoy into being our spokesperson . . . he's practically got a trademark on the word "logical," and it certainly would get media attention!)
**Vulcan salute** (Yes, I'm a Trekker).
Biggoth
Unfortunately, many people aren't using "fat" just as a descriptor -- "fat" has become a word to use to hurt a woman's feelings (whether it's true or not).
Exactly! My husband and I were watching some stupid news gossip show last night waiting for Jeopardy to come on. It aired a piece on the recent Jennifer Love Hewitt debacle in which people called her fat after photos of her emerged in a two-piece bathing suit. Hewitt, on camera and in her blog, was very insistent that "a size 2 isn't fat!"
A size 2 isn't fat, but, the context in which Hewitt said it still made it seem as if fat is a demoralizing and demeaning word and should only be reserved for those who are truly fat. Either way, fat is denigrated.
I started giving up on the Food Network except for the scrumptious Alton Brown and Rachael Ray, mostly because I got tired of the channel turning into the cuisine network. I'm poor, I eat food, cuisine can go take a flying leap. I'm only peripherally aware of Nigella's show, but I will say that people who are fans of the Food Network tend to be a little whacko about the sizes of the women on the shows. Most people say that Rachael Ray is fat, like she's this enormous blob. Ok, so her tummy is a little soft, that's what they're going on about? Mario Batali is fat (mmmm, ok, I watch the channel for Mario too), nobody ever goes on a tear about him though.
It doesn't have to be a perjorative for me to insist that we use it to describe people who are genuinely fat. Nigella and Rachael and all the rest are what sane people think of as normal weight. Mo'Nique is fat, Mario Batali is fat, Paula Dean is fat, this isn't a bad thing, but lets use fat as an accurate descriptor and not throw it around for people who aren't Hollywood underweight.
I don't like most euphemisms for fat, but fluffy, thick, and BBW are the worst. Marshmallo creame is fluffy, steaks are thick, I'm not a thing, I'm a person. I'm fat. I don't like BBW because I'm not beautiful. No seriously, even in the subjective and wide field of beauty I'm a real barker. I think emphasising beauty is just another judgement on the worth of the person, if we can't have value unless we're fat and pretty, then we simply alienate fat people who are ugly. Plus, we don't on the whole insist that men are beautiful so it's just one more dumb hoop women have to jump through to be considered acceptable.
What I hate most are the euphemisms in the fashion industry. Plus, women's, queen, extended, full, full figured. Walk up to the sales people and ask to be shown where they keep the clothes for fat people, don't play their game. You'll get a lot fewer sales folks who are willing to put value judgements on numbers if you're pretty blatant about wanting clothing that just simply fits.
(Sorry my spelling went into the pooper, the spell check on my browser gave up on me halfway through the post.)
I completely agree with you, Paul, about reclaiming the word fat and turning it back into an adjective, not an insult. I say this constantly to anyone who will listen (which is hardly anybody, fat or thin, sadly, but that's another story). As far as euphemisms go, I’ve especially never liked “fluffy,” as it implies a lack of substance and solidity, and I’ve never met a fat person who felt fluffy to me. Poodles and kitties are fluffy. As for curvy, I don’t use it as a euphemism for fat but to describe a body shape that can be fat or thin, but has some round parts (not made of silicone)—boobs, hips, thighs, butt, belly, whatever. Same with big-boned. I was big-boned when I was thin and I’m big-boned fat. I have big feet, broad shoulders, a wide pelvic girdle, a big head. My husband is 6’4”, has slender bones, and wears almost the same shoe size I do at 5’7” Is it too late to have big-boned and curvy mean what they say instead of being code words for fat?
"I wish people would drop this idea that there are invisible lines where people cross over from 'not fat’ to ‘fat’ to 'very fat.'"
I get what you're saying, but if I were commenting on that site I could easily be one of the ones arguing that Nigella Lawson is not fat. Maybe this is wrongheaded of me. I'm pondering it, and I may come to agree with you. But when you're living in a culture where virtually anything this side of extreme emaciation is labeled "fat," I'm not sure what good it does to throw in the towel and place anyone who is larger than, say, the Olson twins in the fat category. If fat is just a descriptor and not an insult, then what’s the problem with calling fat people fat and those who are not, something else. The trouble is that there is no in-between category. You’re either fat or you’re very, very thin. I already knew this in high school 25 years ago, so it’s not that recent a distinction, even if it’s getting worse.
In the meantime, Wallflower, you’ve pretty much said what I wanted to say, but here goes anyway.
I've never even heard the word "fluffy" used to describe a person's size. Personality, maybe. As in, "fluff for brains." But never size. I have been guilty of using euphamisms. Mostly things like "curvy" and "thick," but I never... "fluffy." And I used those euphamisms before I came to realize that there is nothing wrong with the word "fat," and there is nothing wrong with being fat, which simply means "not thin." Mr. Stay Puft is fluffy. I can now say, without shame, that I am fat.
For everyone who has noticed that some people use the word "fat" with a negative vibe, I'd argue that's precisely why it's a political act — and a necessary one — to use the word with pride. There's a grand history for this tactic. Lesbians and gay men and transgender people and bisexuals have reclaimed the word "queer." There's power in pride. If someone uses the F-word with the intention to hurt me, I mess with their world view by claiming it with a smile.
If you still feel the sting when someone uses the word "fat" negatively, that's something for you to consider and work to dispel in your own worldview. Internalized fat hatred affects us all, people of all sizes but especially people who identify as fat. It never completely goes away. Be gentle with yourself, but also aim for as thorough a divestment from internalized fat hate as you can get to. At the same time, don't give whatever fat hate you still inevitably carry around more power by worrying and self-flagellating about it...that can turn into an elaborate way of reactivating the darn stuff. In other words, yes, people who use the F-word hatefully are wankers. But they don't get to define your relationship to the word "fat," you do.
I don't define what anyone else's body is. Of course, if I meet someone in person, I notice what they look like, including their weight. But I consider it rude and inappropriate to define other people. Instead, I often ask them how they identify themselves. Of course, I'm comfortable going first, explaining that I identify as a fat person.
The power dynamic that I oppose happens when other people (or other institutions) arrogate to themselves the power of deciding how to name someone's body, either fat or thin or whatever weight-related category.
So I don't personally undertake to define someone, even a celebrity, as fat or thin. I try to respect whatever public definition they have decided upon for themselves. I think any other approach participates in — and reinforces — the power dynamic that I oppose.
For example, I oppose the government creating weight-based categories like "ideal" weight charts or BMI standards. I oppose clothing retailers segregating people into weight-based shopping areas or excluding the majority of shoppers from being able to buy a size of clothing that fits. I oppose insurance companies pricing their product based on weight or refusing to sell to fat people. I oppose family members telling each other who is fat or who weighs "too much." I oppose friends or strangers saying to anyone, "You're fat!" as if that were a bad thing, or as if such a definition were up to them. I oppose all of the high-school-level emotions involved in looking at a famous person and commenting on their weight, their weight gain, or their weight loss. In all of these examples, someone else is defining a person's body, often in contradistinction to the person's own experience of embodiment.
I don't think weight-based categories are meaningful or necessary or useful. As long as they exist and as long as fat people are oppressed, I will identify myself as a fat person. I am Fatacus! At the same time, I would dearly love to live in a society that couldn't be bothered to create categories based on weight.
I was also baffled by the title of the article, given the fact that she never said anything about not liking her body...
What you say about "fat pride" being a political move probably goes for all movements. Technically there's no reason anyone should have to be "proud" of being gay, or being black, for example. It isn't an achievement, it's just a way that some people are. But the leaders of those movements aren't the ones who settle for a little acceptance, they are the ones who have pride and aren't afraid to say so.
The same people who would never DREAM of telling an anorexic to "just pull up a chair and take a bite of this banana-cream pie! All it takes is a little willpower!"
But.... as someone who is recovered from an eating disorder I can't help pointing out... people say stuff like that to anorexics ALL THE TIME. Size discrimination doesn't only affect fat people.
I never meant to imply it did . . . what I was trying to say is that the ASSUMPTION that willpower alone can "cure" either condition is PART of the discrimination.
It boils down to what I call "wife-beater logic": "If only you'd had dinner ready on time, I wouldn't've HAD to hit you." "If only you fat people would CHOOSE to be 'normal,' I would't HAVE to make your lives miserable."
(Which isn't to say some bullies don't ENJOY making others miserable . . . they just like to blame their targets for it).
It's like telling someone in a wheelchair to just use their willpower and get up and walk. Doesn't work unless 1). They're faking or psychosomatic or 2). You have amazing miraculous/supernatural healing powers.
Furthermore, I think the average person is more sympathetic towards an anorexic than a fat person. I don't recall anorexics being publicly abused . . .
Marilyn, I like the idea of taking "their" term and throwing it back in their faces. On the other hand, before gays and lesbians, etc. adopted "queer" for their movement, didn't they use terms like gay and lesbian? I doubt any native peoples would take up Red Indian or whatever and throw that back in white people's faces. In any case, you've made a case for Fat.
I have a somewhat different take on things, though. I believe the brilliant (again) Marilyn and others spoke above about arbitrary distinctions between fat and not fat. Yes, and also...
don't we all possess some fat on our bodies, with the possible exception of the morbidly thin?
So who is fat, huh???? Why draw a line anywhere? That's why I hesitate to wholey embrace the term "fat." I'd rather call everybody fat and see what thinner people think of that. If we have to have a term to identify ourselves, maybe we should make one up, or dig deeper into history. Where did "black" come from? After "Negro" and during slavery times. (For that matter, I wonder where "white" came from--did white people start being called white by non-whites first?) When I'm asked to mark a square on a form to indicate my race (for some institution's data collection purposes), I choose "other." I might look like I belong to one of those big groups somebody made up, and I am probably treated like I do, but I don't feel like I do. I have chosen the name of my race from the term my forebears called themselves.
A term we choose to own doesn't have to be a euphemism, even if most of the ones we might think of right now already are. Then again, aren't all those so-called euphemistic terms in fact only apparent euphemisms because they, too, have been co-opted? What's wrong with, "big," "larger,", "ample," etc.? and are these terms inherently any worse than "fat"? Or shall we call ourselves Willendorfs?
I don't think this is just idle armchair musing we're doing here, by the way. We DO need to chew the fat!
A bit off-topic to say this, I suppose, but I like this one. Probably because I'm an archaeologist.
At any rate, I agree that it doesn't really matter where the thin/fat line is. I think that creating a definition of what fat is and isn't reinforces the exclusion and divisiveness (sp?) in some subtle way.
FWIW, I read an interesting account of the notion of reclaiming words that have been used as insults in one of Roger Kamenetz's books (I forget which one, probably the one about Elijah), citing both gay and Jewish examples. And I have seen several T-shirts proclaiming the wearer to be an "Injun", "Custer killer", etc. in circulation around various reservations in the southwest. Reclaiming your insults, so to speak, is an idea that's working for other people who are marginalized because of who they are. I'm happy to call myself fat.
I don't see anything wrong with the word fat. It no longer bothers me when others use t to refer to me. Fat is a descriptor of something and a proper one at that, unlike the N word or other slurs that come from bad use of English or some incorrect usage of a term. Even so, when you take back a word that is used to hurt you it loses its power to insult and harm.
Just to be fair, the person who commented "She's not fat (because she's not)..." continued, "...but I think the bigger point is, why is fat so bad?" The person ended their comment with "Why is extra flesh on a woman so f*cking hateful?"
Like Sarahbear, I too have been guilty of using euphimisms instead of fat.
I like my flesh, what can I say? 
I now realise that there is nothing wrong at all with the word fat. Although this is so, I also use of words like curvy and large every now and again. However, when I use curvy, I really do mean it. It's not to replace the word fat, I use that word to describe myself and others at times, as a statement of fact. Curvy-as in my flesh is malleable and soft.
I think it's about how you self-identify. Fat is just a descriptor.
Here in Indonesia, we use also big and xtra-l. We know we're fat, the word has no negative connotations for our group. We call ourselves that too. We also self identity as chubby, curvy and xtra-l. As long as the word fat has no power to cause us offense, and fully aware there is nothing wrong with fat, are any of the others so fundamentally wrong?
Just throwing the question out there....it's nice to get different cultural perspectives on it.
thanks
Mia Badib