Danza Voluminosa: Not Fat Friendly
This is going to sound weird but, Danza Voluminosa - a fat dance troupe we first mentioned in 2004 - is not fat friendly.
There's a new article in the NY Times on them that lots of people read. I think MizB put it best when she said it was "so near and yet so far".
Mr. [Juan Miguel] Mas [the troupe's leader] said it would be a mistake to think that his work was intended to glorify or sanctify obesity, or even to deliver a moralistic message that one should not discriminate against the overweight. Rather, he said, the troupe’s art tries to face the reality of obesity while giving larger people a chance to express themselves through dance, a chance they are denied from childhood in most dance classes.
“Although we are obese and dance, we are against obesity,†Mr. Mas explained, saying parenthetically that he admires New York City for banning artificial trans fats from restaurants. “We are always trying to lose weight.â€
It's a real, real disappointment because the sentiment from the dancers interviewed in the article is so very body positive and fat positive... and yet... they're "always" trying to not be fat. WTF?
The troupe is well-received and noted for its gracefulness. Too bad we can't point to them as a real example of a fat positive troupe. Ptooey.
Another Fat Person Denied Adoption Rights | BFB is Seven!
Posted by paul on July 30, 2007
So lemme see if I have this straight. This is a troupe of fat dancers and they envision performing in front of audiences that...wait for it...hate fat...just as much as they do?
So what happens if a dancer in this troupe loses weight for good, as they seem to think would be not only the most desirable thing but also totally attainable for any fat person who ceases to be an utterly lazy slob? (And believe me, you can't be a "lazy slob" and a professional dancer simultaneously regardless of what your weight is, so they must be banking on the troupe being somewhat of a, shall we say, revolving door -- yes?)
What happens if Juan Miguel Mas himself loses a lot of weight? Doesn't his "state sponsored salary" depend, for a good part, on his own 300-pound weight -- since after all, if he was thin, he'd just have to compete with all the other thin dancer/choreographers out there for attention?
The Times fell down on the job. Again.
Whoever heard of *that*?!
We don't know exactly how many of the Dancers Voluminosa feel the way the AD feels about their fatness, because yeah, the dancers seem very excited and self-empowered. Not knowing the AD's level of fluency in English, we also don't know what he means by obese or obesity. If Spanish is his first language, maybe the word "obese" has a different charge or weight (ha) to it in Spanish, that doesn't translate right. (Of course, the writer is probably colluding with that usage as well.) Anyway, the AD clearly isn't down with being a fat dancer, and that totally sucks. But there are so many "overweight" people in the world and so few--not enough!--full-out, self-accepting fatties, I am not surprised that DV is kinda hanging off the back end, nonchalantly, of the fattie wagon (hoping that no one will catch them on it).
I have been following DV since the late 90s, and it was one of my earliest fantasies to produce DV in the US. But after I took Legal Issues for the Arts in my Arts Admin. masters coursework, I saw how tangled the process is for bringing international performers into the states, and from Cuba? Sheesh. Fuhgeddaboutit. Big Moves ain't big enough for that battle yet.
However, we are proudly fattie friendly, all the time, everywhere. We are size diverse and size accepting, because we believe Every Body Can Dance, and we are not shy or conflicted. You will not hear a Big Moves person in the media backing off the fat, ever. Our next dance production is called Lard ("like grease, but thicker"), it's a 50s musical parody, full of great dance and lots of fat people, who are not trying to lose weight and frequently wear outrageous fattastic clothing, both in and out of rehearsal and performances, and also a few skinny people, who are learning to feel even better about their bodies from the fatties in rehearsal, etc. Hey, we don't have to deliver the message, we dance it. (Also, there are so many edible food props in the production, it's hilarious. Including bacon. And probably trans fats.)
And I personally find that fatties rock my casbah. If that's "sanctifying obesity," then honey, I'm guilty.
Google Big Moves and find out about _your_ fat friendly dance options today!
Marina
I wonder if he's just saying that so people won't stir the pot and say he's pro-obese or anti-health or whatever those carrot snackers call it.
kat
"I have no desire to prove anything by my work. I have never used it as an outlet or as a means of expressing myself. I just dance."
— Fred Astaire (1899-1987)
Steps in Time (1959)
I thought of that wonderful saying by Mr. A, as I read the Times article. To me Mr. Mas was trying to shake off all the expectations and charges, both positive and negative, that are put upon his work and the Troupe. So he say's they're not for "obesity" nor are they against fat people, they're just about giving fat people a chance to dance. It's all about the dance...
"..the troupe’s art tries to face the reality of obesity while giving larger people a chance to express themselves through dance...." ---Mr Mas
Naturally people, myself included, are going to put their own, or a whole movement will, or society will, put their expectations and/or accusations on them. Mr Mas is aware of that, and so tries to keep it about, what he feels it's all about....the dance. For me, I'm not really a fan of fat dance groups... while I think it's great that fat people are dancing and doing their thing, I find, more often than not, their pieces mocking fat people. The humor comes from how funny it is to see fat people doing "Swan Lake" or being sexy in doing the "Lady Marmalade" number from Moulin Rouge. I much prefer to see fat performers in roles that aren't making fun of their size such as the performer's in the too-short lived Taboo, Hairspray and other shows where a fat person is cast.
Hmmm. My daughter just sent the article to me, with her note to me that, "Except for one quick nod to weight loss midway through the article, it's pretty cool." So I read it before any blog comments. True, I did not care for the "we're always trying to lose weight" stuff, but the emphasis of the article, in spite of the writer's implicit bewilderment, was on how terrific the dancing and the pieces were, and how validating the experience of dancing publicly was for the dancers.
There's no doubt in my mind that Big Moves is more solidly fat friendly than DV. On the other hand, when you get the New York Times to write about a large-bodied dance troupe, "they are capable of performing moving pieces that drill into the universal themes of love, death and erotic longing" and "Because of the size of the dancers in Mr. Mas’s troupe, however, the work of Danza Voluminosa conveys something more earthy and human [than traditional dance troupes]." it's still a good thing.
I guess I gotta say, Paul, your comments about DV not being fat friendly are one-sided. Yes, DV "wants to lose weight." But so do most fat people in the so-called civilized world. DV isn't a model troupe, from our standpoint, but can't we give them credit for what they ARE doing right?
Goddess, I agree with most of your post. But saying that "most" fat people want to lose weight is a bit of a stretch, isn't it? The times I have been pressured to lose weight didn't come from me, but society. If it were up to me, I'd just stay my big ol' self for the rest of my life. Or maybe I just read the comment wrong?
I guess I gotta say, Paul, your comments about DV not being fat friendly are one-sided. Yes, DV "wants to lose weight." But so do most fat people in the so-called civilized world. DV isn't a model troupe, from our standpoint, but can't we give them credit for what they ARE doing right?
Well, sure they're one-sided. They're my opinions.
But!
I think it's a huge disservice to suggest that "most" fat people want to lose weight. I'd suggest that fat people just want to be treated equally and have equal access to everything instead. It's also fine if the folks from DV want to lose weight but, to me, that throws a big scarlet letter on the whole thing. It's something that should celebrate fatness and yet, they're trying to be not fat. That's incongruous to me.
Diane said:
I have not seen the Russian fat ballet troupe do Swan Lake, but I have seen the "Moulin Huge" number that some amazing fatties did on an awards show (I think led by Mo'nique). While that number, as played, was fairly low on dance, it wasn't much less than what was done for the video to that song, by skinny folks. The costumes were on par (a la turn-of-century brothel, with all the trimmings), and the attitudes were equally fierce. I didn't think those performers were intentionally clowning (ha ha, look at the fatties trying to be sexy). In short, I didn't find that humorous. I found it sexy. Much of the audience may have found it funny, because they think it's ridiculous that fat women should even attempt to go there.
My jazz/musical theater dancers will often do sexed-up dances, in costumes that I specifically keep to mainstream considerations; that is, some people show bellies, some people wear fishnets, or booty shorts, or tight pants ("anything you can wear, I can wear tighter!"). Some of the song-and-dance numbers I rewrite for parody (All That Flab, for example), others I keep "straight" (no lyric rewrites), and still others have no lyrics, but are just straight-out dance. But on all of those numbers, we are aiming for technically strong, expressive dance. The parody pieces, we expect laughs and applause for funny as well as for fabulous. But sometimes on the straight pieces we get laughs, when we aren't trying for them, and that reaction, I think, is showing what the audience brings to it, their own sense of discomfort or ridiculousness or whatever.
For fat dancers, context and audience can change everything. What we perform at a NAAFA convention is going to be different from what we perform at NOLOSE, or a mainstream showcase, and different still from what we perform at our own full-length dance revues. EVEN IF we are dancing the same steps, in the same costumes. Different audiences, different expectations, different sense of humor, different collective sense of what fat women should or shouldn't be doing on stage.
Marina
I love dance. I took some dance lessons (a variety of types) in college, but it was more for the joy of dancing. I totally connect with Fred Astaire's view above...
I have, though, observed what diane mentions above -- mockery of fat people in fat dance troupes. On the one hand, I see it as a bit of "in your face" theater. On the other, self-mockery. But I don't think it has to be that way. I don't think the performers really intend all of their pieces to be that way either. As an audience member I also bring my own expectations to the auditorium, and a lot of the time -- for me -- I end up examining how I feel about a piece both in the context of what the dancers did and what I saw/felt IN MY OWN HEAD. What did I bring to the table? I don't always like the answer, because sometimes I find that I brought prejudices or incorrect expectations.
When in college I was privileged to see the Ballets Trocadero di Montecarlo. I haven't seen them advertised anywhere lately, so I'm not sure the troupe exists. It's an all-male troupe that does traditional ballet. They give themselves silly, pseudo-Russian names, and kind of "act out" the diva ideal on stage. I guess the central concept was to get past the traditional role of the male in ballet. I thought then that it was all about comedy.
The cool thing about them, however, wasn't the comedic aspect of their "diva" performances. Once or twice a performance, they did a piece that was absolutely serious-straight (as in non-comedic), and their grace and ability could take one's breath away. For me, the idea that the prima ballerina had to be petite, rail-thin, and female was blown away.
That's what I'd like to see, as a dance fan and a member of an audience, a "fat dance" troupe do. Why does it have to BE about fat? Comedy is great, and let's do it, but why can't it be just about dance, and grace? I'd like to hear more from Mr. Mas about that topic.
In another related line of thought... I'd like some day to see some of the adherents of Isadora Duncan's. Her school of dance is still around although she died in the 1930's. Google her on the web -- lots of good info.
Anyway, it seemed to me (at least from the stills) that her style has great potential for people of any size. It's very expressive and... "grounded" for lack of a better word. It was all about the dance.
--Andy Jo--
I have to agree with many of Diane's comments, it's all about the dance. It's about redemption and expression through dance which is a language in and of itself. Also one often has to be wary about what artists ( of any discipline), say they are notorious for saying things for effect.
The most important thing to them is to be able to continue their art in conditions that they feel are most conducive to it. If they feel being a positive advocate for fatness will get in their way, the troupe leader may feel like detaching himself from that somewhat. I'm not excusing all of what he said, just stating that his actions in founding this company, refusing to be bound by the idea that fat people can't or don't move, changing other peoples ideas, including those initially hostile, is a living actual testament to it's palpable falsehood, I find these dancers inspiring.
I just managed to listen to the NPR audio piece, there was nothing in this reflecting the negativity in the NYT article. Mas speaks about the inspiration to form the dance group, from paintings by Fernando Botero -I think someone has already linked to him before. If not; link
He also spoke of how fat people had low self-esteem and had to believe that they could be artists and express themselves, something that is not said enough, that the constant attacks on fat people's physical abilities, can burrow so deep that you can become totally alienated from your physical self, so that it can become hard to connect fluently with it. It simply doesn't match the article at all in tone. Unless that's what the intervening years have done to his attitude. I know it's not likely but it would be interesting to hear from the dancers themselves directly, any Spanish speakers among us?!!!
Something doesn't seem right here. On the one hand Mas claims that DV is all about "giving larger people a chance to express themselves through dance, a chance they are denied from childhood" whilst simultaneously stating that he's not attempting to deliver a 'moralistic message that one should not discriminate against the overweight'. But by founding this company that's EXACTLY what he's doing; and the question of why someone who disagrees with the existence of fat people would lead a dance troupe of, erm... fat people! is never raised, much less answered at any point.
On a related note I'm also getting sick of this MeMe Roth-esque argument that any positive portrayal of fat people in the media must be seen in terms of condoning, glorifying or sanctifying obesity - though I can understand why Mr Mas, given his position, might seek to deflect any such accusations from health campaigners and other busybodies by staying 'on message' and pre-emptively distancing himself from the concept of fat acceptance...
It is regrettable that we cannot admire this group (or at least their leader) not just for their dancing, but for their stance on fatness. I find it hard to imagine the dancers working hard on a particular piece, then stepping away from the rehearsal floor to have some rice cakes, because they're "always trying to lose weight." Too bad.
Big Moves is an excellent example of a group that's fat and proud and not the least bit shy, and they're not trying to lose weight. They're just dancing the sassiest, sexiest dance they can, in the wonderful bodies they have.
Jennifer Portnick
Personal Trainer (who is fat)
San Francisco, CA
"Carrot snackers." Katrina, I think I love you.
It sounds to me, from this article, like someone is trying awfully hard to please everyone, and, in the process, ends up pleasing no one. For the love of all that's holy, man, pick a side!
About my previous comment that "most people want to lose weight," I meant to say that most WOMEN in our so-called civilized world want to lose weight. Mea culpa. But I stand by my revised statement, in any case. Of course individuals such as many, if not most, of those who contribute to this blog wouldn't be described in this way. But, haven't we been saying all along that we're fighting a battle not just against newsmedia, doctors, and advertisers, but also against the attitudes of the general public? Here I was, thinking it was a given that we're an embattled minority of people who understand that each of us is okay at whatever size we happen to be. Further, we're doing our best to spread the word to the many more women and men who are oppressed by size intolerance. Further, part of that oppression takes the form of self-hatred for being the social pariahs society makes these people feel they are. Apparently, this was not a given. My mistake.
Of the hundreds of women I've either befriended or had brief, positive interactions with in my lifetime, I think two have expressed their contentment with their weight. And, yes, most of those hundreds of women have talked about their weight, however irrelevant it was to the nature of our interaction. It's the currency of female society these days.
Here are a few databytes I've found:
In a Glamour magazine survey in 1988 [yes, a long time ago, but have things really gotten so much better since then?], more than 80% of the women who responded said they fear getting fat more than they fear dying. When 33,000 women responded to Glamour magazine's reader survey of their feelings about their bodies, 75% said they felt too fat. This was true even though, according to their self-reports of weight and height, only 25% were overweight and 30% were underweight According to the Canadian organization, the National Eating Disorder Information Centre, 80%-90% of women dislike the size and shape of their bodies. Supposedly, at any given time, 70% of American women and 40% of men are on a diet. If the majority of women are not feeling too fat, who is it that's spending 40 billions dollars a year on dieting and diet-related products?
I think Paul and Goddess are both right. I do think most women (and a substantial percentage of men) want to lose weight -- hell, even I'm not going to tell you I'm 100% immune to that -- but I doubt they'd have nearly the hankering to do so if this was a truly weight-neutral society. The desire to lose weight doesn't happen in a vacuum; it's the direct result of the torrent of fat negativity and prejudice out there. By saying, "We're always trying to lose weight," and denying being fat-accepting, they're saying, "We agree with the prejudice, we don't think we deserve the respect of thin people either." (Yeah, they can also say they're trying to get thin "for their health," but I think it's been pretty well documented that weight-loss dieting -- as opposed to simply making improvements in diet and exercise habits and letting one's weight fall where it may -- doesn't improve the overall health of the vast, vast majority of people who do it, nor does it make most of them permanently thin. You can be quite "obese" without ever letting "trans fats," to cite the example given in this article, touch your lips.)
I'm with you all the way, Meowzer!