AP Article on Short Seat Belts
Like a lot of consumers, Paul McAleer focused on comfort when he recently went car shopping. Adjustable seats, a tilt steering wheel and extra height were all important.
Because he's a self-described "fat guy," the Web site designer also has to check to see if he can fit in the seat belt.
And here I am playing the guitar... er, seat belt. The article is a good recap of the recent study suggesting that fat people don't use seat belts (primarily because they don't fit) and here's the cold hard facts:
Government regulations for auto manufacturers don't use BMI to determine dimensions for seat belts. The standard instead says belts must fit up to a 215-pound man who has a seated hip circumference of 47 inches. That was set in the 1960s.
When the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration considered changing the rules in 2003, it estimated that more than 38 million people, or 19 percent of the total U.S. population, were larger than the seat belt requirements.
How can one rely on 40-year-old standards without adjusting for changes in the population? Ridiculous.
[Updated: Cruft-free Google version of the article, with two photos of yours truly. Wow!]
Augusta Chronicle Staff: Hypocritical Liars | Reminder: Think Tank on Feb. 23
Posted by paul on February 8, 2008
It is ridiculous, and yet I'd be willing to bet if they made any move to change it we'd see outrage about "enabling the fatties" Remember the flap when Disney wanted to make the boats in It's a Small World bigger/able to carry more weight?
This is different, though. Seat belts are the LAW. People MUST wear them or face the possible loss of their drivers' licenses if they rack up enough violations. If it is impossible for 20% of the population to comply with the law, even if they want to, then something has to change NOW. That 20% is in violation of the law TODAY and even assuming they could diet their way into standard seatbelt size (which I do not), they can't do it today, tomorrow, next week. Today, tomorrow, next week, they are still outlaws. Do we really want to disallow 20% of the adult population to drive because they have the "wrong" measurements? Do we really want to go there?
My dad got a ticket once a few years ago (his second ticket ever in his entire 52-year-old life). The officer also ticketed him for not wearing a seatbelt, which is mandatory in Ohio. My dad went to the local city court where the judge fined him for the ticket, but amended it so that no points were accrued. And after my dad told him that not only does he have severe asthma, exacerbated by a seatbelt, and that the seatbelt didn't fit (my dad weighs 400 + pounds) the judge dismissed the ticket entirely.
My dad was lucky, but others may not get so sympathetic a judge. And of course, worst case scenario, someone may actually be hurt as a result of not wearing a seatbelt. Unfortunately, I don't think car manufacturers will get on board unless a government body forces them to.
Meowzer, this is exactly right. However, cops, despite often being pricks, are also human. You CAN talk to them and show them and explain - and remember, most of them are fat donut-eaters themselves
At any rate, there've been many times when I was still sick, and would fret and say "I can't get this seatbelt on...well, if we get pulled over I'll explain and show him..." and I would have. I don't drive right now, but when I was driving I used only the automatic shoulder harness - and that's enough to deter a pullover. I'd still show them the lap belt problem, should I ever run into it.
Yes, that may make us less safe, and probably does. I still have my old doctor in my mind explaining to me that his son was only saved from dying in HIS jeep wreck because he was NOT buckled in and was thrown (while the jeep was smashed to bits) so that plays in. I dunno, maybe because I date back to the time of dinosaurs when seatbelts weren't even mandatory in most cars that were on the road, I guess I don't get all bent out of shape about seatbelts. Car wrecks suck either way, and it's best to drive hella defensively.
Zero isn't a size, it's a warning sign. - Carson Kressley
I wish more people would discuss a fairly simple change that would help us all: standardized seatbelts. Can you imagine if I had one extender that I could use in my friend's car, colleague's car, or the car of some guy I pick up? By the way, remember how much attention the small received years ago about their problems with the airbag, and yet we've been dying for years and been harrassed by cops but have received very little attention. This article is a good start, and I appreciate Paul's warning.
I think they're making the belts shorter than they used to, I know they're making the seats smaller. My hubby has to drive big ol' boats to accommodate his six and a half foot frame, so most of those cars are from the mid 80's or earlier. Occasionally we've been shunted into a loaner car from the family that's made more recently, and not only is it harder for me to get the belt spooled out to go across my hips, I've noticed that the sides of the seats bite my ass. I'm only a size 24 on the bottom and I've been that way for a decade or more, if I have that problem then surely average sized men must be feeling the pinch! We once had to get a rental car after one of the family loaners was totalled, and they had to upgrade my husband to a luxury car after we tested out several large sedans, all of the non-luxury sedans had wicked narrow seats and short belts, the luxury they put us into had super wide seats! And a generous belt! (I wish I could remember what it was too, I'd so like to buy one used.)
I'm not for saving money if it means I spend the whole ride in agony!
Great article and nice pic.
My very fat sister hasn't worn a seatbelt in years, because they don't freakin' fit, and it drives me nuts. Personally, I hate them for the same reason Peggy Howell does -- I feel like I'm being strangled, which is more a function of shortness than fatness in my case. I wear them anyway, but it just infuriates me that a basic safety measure is only made to fit some people properly. (Ditto the airbags that decapitated women my height. I've got a whole other rant about how they only test safety features on men.)
Kate: Don't even get me started on testing only done on standard sized men! Besides my ample girth (I bought a "universal" seatbelt extender, but it is a permanent installation and not very handy to take car to car), there is still the issue of my ample bosom. Seatbelts were not made with the full figured gal in mind. They inevitably ride up over the girls and end up sawing away at my neck. Nice. It should be noted, too, that not only are seatbelts rated only up to the GIRTH of a 215 pound person, they must only restrain that weight. So, theoretically, a 300lb person depending on the seatbelt to stop him or her from flying out the windshield in an accident may discover too late that the belt was not up to the task.
So let's see: the powers-that-be are becoming ever-more eager to micro-manage everything, introducing dozens of often unenforceable laws (Bill 282 anyone?) until it's something that could possibly benefit fat people. And then they're strangely silent. Or worse, as Paul points out in the article, they start blaming the fat people for their legislative oversight.
You really couldn't make it up.
I'm 6'1" so have never had problems with seatbelts 'riding up'. However I have noticed that in recent years they've started making the upper anchor points adjustable to account for variations in height. Surely it's therefore not too much to expect car makers to also cater for variations in size; not least because an unrestrained 400lb person flying around in an crash could potentially do a lot of damage, and not only to themselves.
Oh, but I forgot: your height isn't a conscious choice [rolls eyes]...
The big auto companies are very keen to crow about their safety test ratings but it's clear that these simulations are nowhere near comprehensive enough if they don't account for the fact that larger people might just possibly use their products too (after all, aren't the majority of their potential customers now supposedly fat?) To be honest even if the some of these belts belt did fit I'd worry about their resraint capacity given that they're less likely to have been properly tested against the greater forces exerted by a fat person in an accident.
I generally have no problem buckling up in our Forester, we had a friend who many times held the buckle in her hand so it looked like it was buckled simply because it was too much of an effort to get it to do so and then she felt like she was bing cut in two. I barely can buckle the one in the back seat if i have to ride there.
I do appreciate they have the height adjusters, but they still don't go down low enough to keep me from being garroted by the belt. So I have a clip I got at the auto store to keep the belt of my throat. Problem is, the belt no longer sits across my hips, but over my tummy when I use it.
I am not surprised NHTSA won't change the standards. How long has Elizabeth Fischer been trying to get them to require auto makers provide seatbelt extenders? NHTSA, like most government agencies, get their marching orders from big business, not us.
For nine years.
I remember trying to drive my Dad's van. Since I'm short I had to move the seat all the way up to touch the pedals, and in the winter, with my coat on, the seat belt wouldn't go around me. So I had to drive with no coat in order to wear the seat belt. It was stretched as far as it would go. That was 10 years ago, I wonder if I'd be able to lock the belt today at all.
I don't have any problem buckling up in my Caravan. The problem I have is that the shoulder harness cuts right across my neck. I got one of those adjusters that pulls the shoulder harness down (it holds it to the lap belt). The only problem with that is that it's plastic (I haven't been able to find a metal one). Plastic is really gonna hold up well in an accident, isn't it, especially since it has to hold 375 lbs in place. I'm not sure the belt would even hold up in a crash, since they don't test that kind of thing with fat crash test dummies (now that I would like to see).
it's all right to be crazy, just don't let it drive ya nuts!
I was grateful to recently get a seat belt extender for my old Saturn - and free of charge. Of course, when I drive in my sister's Honda - I can't use the extender, and anyone who's familiar with Elizabeth Fischer knows about Honda and their lack of extenders. I also hesitate to take a ride in other people's cars for fear the seat belt won't fit. Truly annoying and ridiculous! Having a universal extender would be wonderful!
As far as I can tell, the only auto manufacturer currently that won't provide seatbelt extenders is Honda. So the belts themselves might be too short, and that sucks, and I think a universal extender is a fabulous idea. But at least a person can usually get an extender for their own car. The US manufacturers usually provide it free of charge. So does Toyota, although they make you fill out a form with your measurements.
Oh gawd. Seatbelts used to be my bane- my whole life, until recently, being able to buckle my seatbelt was uncomfortable. To abide by the laws, I held my seatbelt across my torso and made it LOOK like I was wearing it, but I got used to having a very good grip on my seatbelt. The times I actually tried to buckle them resulted in feeling pinched and unable to breathe.
I think that seatbelts should be longer than they are. I suppose I'm really only joining the others in saying so, but if you have the ability to make your seatbelt lock at any length, then why not make the damn things long enough to accommodate large sizes? As Meowzer said, the fact is that until they DO extend the seatbelts, anyone who doesn't fit the standards is not only driving illegally, but dangerously. Even if they can compensate for most bad driving, all it takes is one bad moment, either theirs or someone else's, to send their head through the windshield.
Are fat people's lives worth less? We're not worth the cost it would take to extend the seatbelt by even just a couple of feet?
Nissan allegedly has extenders but after a six month battle including numerous long-distance calls and faxes and one international phone call and no fewer than 9 dozen e-mails I gave up on getting them to admit such a thing existed, let alone allow me to purchase one.
We recently ditched the Nissan and got a Hyundai. My first criteria checked for every car we looked at was my ability (as fattest driver in the family) and my husband's ability (as tallest) to easily adjust the seats and buckle the belts in both driver and passenger seats. Hyundai also does not provide extenders, apparently, but even in their mid-range sedan (the Elantra) I have more than enough room to buckle up even when wearing a heavy sweater and my heavy fleece winter wrap. And I am what some people refer to as supersized fat. I was very pleased about this after seatbelt fit forced us to eliminate everything Volkswagon and Honda had to offer in our chosen price and gas mileage parameters.
One day someone will figure out that they're putting our lives at risk by not making it possible for us to be safe in every car that we ride in. There is no reason why seatbelt buckles have to be proprietary. There is no reason why we shouldn't be able to order an extra long belt as an option. There is no reason why anyone, whether tall or fat or pregnant or big-breasted or asthmatic should not be able to enjoy some protection with an extended belt, even if it's not "optimal" protection. It's ridiculous that after dropping tens of thousands of dollars, fat car buyers are treated as unimportant when safety is considered.
My feelings are a little mixed up on this one. The libertarian in me wants to have a jump-up-and-down tantrum about seat belt laws. My personal opinion (and lots of my friends here in East TN) is that's where it all started. The moment we let them get away with telling us we -had- to wear seat belts was first blood in the government really liking the idea of being in control of our lives and knowing they could probably get away with it.
Last I checked this was suppose to be a free country where, so long as I'm not a danger to the public, I can do pretty much whatever the heck I want. If that means I want to put me and my theoretical genetic legacy in however many thousands of pounds of metal and moving parts and throw myself down a highway at 60-80mph with only 4 points of very small rubber contact with the road, and not avail myself of the included safety features.... well that's my bad when it all comes to a bad end and it's all Davi (inside joke with my sister, our last name is Davis) out of the gene pool.
However, on the other hand, then we fat people (I can't buckle up in most back seats and quite a few front seats, though my Sentra does fine) would have to rely on supply and demand to budge the car manufacturers into giving us seat belts we can actually wear. At least right now we can point out "it's the law, so make them comply" ("Moooooom.... Ford won't give me a long enough seeeaaat beeeelt!").
"My feelings are a little mixed up on this one. The libertarian in me wants to have a jump-up-and-down tantrum about seat belt laws."
Uh, yep. Me too. Same as cyclers get about helmet laws. I forgot to mention that above, but seriously, the idea that I'm an outlaw because I might not wear a seatbelt is about as offensive to me as the idea that I might not be served a burger in McDonald's because I'm fat. It's none of their fucking business.
Having the OPTION of buckling in, however, fat as I may be, is another story. Sort of. I shouldn't buy cars that don't afford me those options, if I want them. In which case you're talking about consumer pressure (perfectly valid) and only buying the things that afford you the options you want.
Zero isn't a size, it's a warning sign. - Carson Kressley
As a person whose life was saved by a seat belt, I find it enraging that 100% of human beings can't have access to ones that actually work properly (whether they want to wear them or not).
It's obvious that seat belts must be redesigned with a whole lot of human body variances taken into consideration. (Even at the lowest settings, most seat belts cut across part of my neck--and I'm average height for a woman in the US!!) Many years ago, Ralph Nader exposed the auto industry's disregard for human safety and set in motion countless improvements and an enraged and insistent populace. I would dance in the streets if we (read: COFRA and the millions who will back us up) could succeed in making cars at least as safe for large people (tiny people, tall people, people with disabilities) as for your average crash dummy.
Might this be an issue we could use as a spearhead--one that can pull a lot of us together and spur us on to action, and which most nonfatties would not argue against? (Yeah, even if some people out there wish we would just dry up and blow away, or get killed in an unsafe car, I'd like to think most have more regard for us than that.)
Jeesh - all along I thought it was only me!
"Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent" - Eleanor Roosevelt
Because the reason they're an issue for short people is that we sit too close to the steering wheel for the airbag to go off safely. If any part of your face, chest, or stomach is less than 10 inches away from the airbag portion of the steering wheel, then you should get an airbag on/off switch installed.
Now ask me how easy that is.
When I needed one for my Ford Taurus (I had to sit so close to the steering wheel to reach the pedals that I couldn't fit behind the wheel when I hit 7 months pregnant), it took me 6 months and a letter from my congressman to get permission from the NHTSA to get one installed.
I am actually more than 10 inches away from the steering wheel in my Kia Sedona so I don't need one, but if I get pregnant again, or go up a size or two, I'll definitely need one again.
Liz
"Last I checked this was suppose to be a free country where, so long as I'm not a danger to the public, I can do pretty much whatever the heck I want."
Actually, Morrighan, you're a danger to others if you don't wear a seatbelt, so libertarian philosophies don't apply here. Your freedom to do whatever you want ends when it infringes upon someone else's safety. A heavy, unsecured person in a particularly bad wreck could certain harm others.
I don't drive, never have, and don't plan to, so this has never crossed my radar screen. I always just assumed the seatbelts had enough excess give to fit almost anyone. I'm really shocked and appalled that so many people out there can't even buckle up
How come no one who was injured in a carwreck because they couldn't fit hasn't sued? (Or have they?) I know of many airbag-related lawsuits. This seems even more egregious; seatbelts are more basic than airbags.
Actually, no. It's my car and anyone who is worried about me flying around and hurting them in a wreck shouldn't get in it. No one should be held responsible for the decisions of others.
But this is a Fat Acceptance blog. Not a political debate blog. We both agree that fat people not having enough seat belt to buckle up is "A Bad Thing(tm)." Even if we don't agree on the where's, why's, and whatfors of the surrounding situation.
This must be something recent. Over the years we've had quite a few cars. The older models like my 1979 Chevy Malibu, our 1984 Dodge Caravan and our 1991 Olds had great seatbelts that I never had problems with. We just got rid of a 1997 Buick Le Sabre and now own a 2000 Park Avenue that I've had to use seatbelt extensions with. Annoying!! But at least the dealer tossed them in for free when we bought the car. By that time I wasn't afraid to ask anymore! LOL
"Actually, no. It's my car and anyone who is worried about me flying around and hurting them in a wreck shouldn't get in it. No one should be held responsible for the decisions of others."
Haha. So you don't think it's possible to fly OUT of your car during a wreck? I've actually known a person that was injured by someone else's body that was thrown in a collision.
And, sorry, getting into your car is not a license for you to hurt someone because you can't/don't follow basic safety procedures. What if it's a child?
I'll find the links on this to educate you a little bit. It's actually a real problem; despite what you might think, seat belts are not only important for your personal safety, but for others as well. This isn't a political issue. As I said, your libertarian argument doesn't even apply because it's just a fact that you could be a danger to others.
Feel free to post your links dear, but I will not engage in conversation with someone who feels I need to be educated just because my opinion doesn't agree with theirs.
I work for a police department. My mother has been an ER nurse for 15 years. My father is a fireman. I promise you I'm much more educated on the matter than for it to require you to make such a condescending assumption.
And I apologize to everyone else for the momentary off topic-ness. Won't happen again (in this thread).
If you'd like to debate the merits of seatbelt use, feel free to start a topic in the Outside forum.